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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I was just looking at the newly released MOT failure data. The 166 shows up quite well

1999 405 427 51.3%
2000 412 351 46.0%
2001 281 258 47.9%
2002 144 93 39.2%
2003 99 45 31.3%
2004 72 26 26.5%


That's year of first use, passes, fails and failure rate.

Obviously the BMW's Mercs and Lexus do a bit better :D

The BBC's done a nice spreadsheet of all the data. Gives reasons for failures. I haven't had a chance to look at it all properly.
 

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Whats with Alfa 155 figures? Apparently 100% failure in 2004
 
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What a pointless exercise?!
Talk about statistics being used to prove anything......

How many garages get their main source of income from "fails" and associated repair?
How many cars fail on a simple fix?
How many cars can pass with only a small amount spent (granted not many 166s...!)

Taken at face value, most manufacturers seem to make cars which cannot pass an mot first time????
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think it's a brilliant idea. Not at all pointless. If you gather enough numbers then the statistics will speak for themselves. In the great scheme of things, garages don't treat any car marque different from any other.

We'll soon see these stats organised and published in Parkers etc. They will no doubt have a significant effect on resale values, down to the year.
 
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But so much of it comes down to how owners look after their cars

Unfortunately lots of Alfa (especially 166s) are owned by enthusiasts and well cared for and yet these figures show many first time fails

Statistically - not really useful enough to show any particualr trend in my opinion

and my opinion can obviously be ignored by everyone else!
 

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But so much of it comes down to how owners look after their cars

Unfortunately lots of Alfa (especially 166s) are owned by enthusiasts and well cared for and yet these figures show many first time fails

Statistically - not really useful enough to show any particualr trend in my opinion

and my opinion can obviously be ignored by everyone else!
The numbers are high enough for the the odd wreck of a car or immaculate one not to count

Stuart
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Yes. A good stats rule of thumb is that a sample over 100 is good enough for most purposes. Under a hundred and the margin of error gets dangerous. Over a hundred and the confidence builds.
 
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I'll keep quiet for now, lets just enjoy the figures!
In reality, we all know how good a 166 is in terms of reliability etc once you start to look after them and treat them as the collectable car they deserve to be! :)
 

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some 147s were MOT'd in 1999, and they were only launched in 1999, so would not be needing an MOT until 2002, so how does that work?

furthermore in 2004 is it suggesting there are only 72 166s submitted for MOT? I know they are rare, but not that rare surely, There must be 72 of us on here unless were do not have MOTs....
 

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Slight statistical error - a 166 in 1995? Probably meant a 164.

At least thye all passed on emissions test. If the stats show that most failures between '99 & '01 are brake related, this is mostly down to poor user maintenance, 2002 shows a significant drop, which could mean a number of things, but obviously the figures have dropped as less & less 166s are kept running.

The stats are quite useful, but only if you are looking at other makes, the 166 (and most Alfas in general) are mostly bought by enthusiasts or people who look carefully (not in all cases though!) so maintaining their cars become priority
 

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Amazingly there seems to be still one, only one mind you, Alfa 6 still on the road :lol:
 

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statistics show 79.5% of statistics are made up :)
 

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But so much of it comes down to how owners look after their cars

Unfortunately lots of Alfa (especially 166s) are owned by enthusiasts and well cared for and yet these figures show many first time fails

Statistically - not really useful enough to show any particualr trend in my opinion

and my opinion can obviously be ignored by everyone else!
I agree that as soon as you get into "niche" models there will be all sorts of confounding factors. That said, many might cancel out. For example, I regard myself as a 164 enthusiast but because I have acces to cheap MOT tests through work, I tend not to mess about worring if such-and-such a component would pass or fail. I tend to just put it in for the test with the most cursory of pre-checks and see what it fails on, then only go and sort the bits that have failed. Ferraris seem to do rather well too and I'm sure they're not a byword for reliability. For bigger numbers (I think over 1000 rather than over 100, to be honest), I think it could be a useful tool. Certainly we recently replaced my wife's car (yes, the 156 drowned:cry:!) with a Nissan X-Trail and their figures suggest that EITHER Nissan owners are an unusually diligent bunch when it comes to maintenance OR (much more likely), nothing ever goes wrong with a Jap car!
 

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The stats may not be that accurate either.

I did some checking on my first car, a Hyundai Pony, & the stats only go up to '96, with 1 test & 1 failure, & my car failed all it's MOTs from 2000-2002. Maybe they didn't need to show it after '96 but there must have been more cars than that!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
For bigger numbers (I think over 1000 rather than over 100, to be honest), I think it could be a useful tool.
I would never make a decision based on a sample size of under 100. But at over 100 I'd start to take notice. Especially if the issue was important enough to me.

Looking at the data for the 166, it follows a sensible enough pattern over the years that I'd intuitively accept. So I don't have a problem with broadly trusting it.
 
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