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…I love the beautiful game and the raw talent that’s about today is just exciting and exhilarating to watch but I just feel that the money aspect is becoming ridiculous. It’s probably been said many times before but how long can clubs sustain these sorts of payments.

In recent years we’ve seen Leeds collapse, ManU saddled with ridiculous levels of debt and now my beloved Liverpool will be in the same boat themselves soon!

What do all you Football fans think..?

BBC SPORT | Football | Europe | Kaka completes Real Madrid switch
 

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…I love the beautiful game and the raw talent that’s about today is just exciting and exhilarating to watch but I just feel that the money aspect is becoming ridiculous. It’s probably been said many times before but how long can clubs sustain these sorts of payments.

In recent years we’ve seen Leeds collapse, ManU saddled with ridiculous levels of debt and now my beloved Liverpool will be in the same boat themselves soon!

What do all you Football fans think..?

BBC SPORT | Football | Europe | Kaka completes Real Madrid switch
I think we need to get the yanks out and someone with lots of cash in :D
 

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:lol: well you asked :p
We should have sold out to DIC :D
 

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Discussion Starter #5
:lol: well you asked :p
We should have sold out to DIC :D
Only 1 half would sell so the deal coundt go through!

I still don't even think we should be looking for a new ground. I cant imagine that we would get full capacity on a regular basis like the manc scum manage.

Besides, there's the history of the ground that would be lost forever!
 

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I think the trend for more and more money will continue, especially if those oil-rich Arabs see the EPL as a high-profile way to show their peers how well off they are.

Once teams stop being run as a business (i.e. a venture that needs to be self-supporting as a minimum and preferrably profit-making) and become a plaything then the only limit is the owners interest. When that wanes, what becomes of the club?

In the meantime the gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' will widen with only those with rich benefactors able to secure the best talent. Everyone else will have to do what my beloved Arsenal have done for some time now - scour the world for the best up-and-coming young talent and nurture them to greatness.
 

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The situation that United, and probably Liverpool (not as sure about you), find themselves in is completely divorced from the 'financial state of football' in reality. It's just that **** like Blatter and Platini love to attempt to use us to fulfill their anti-England agenda.

While it is very true that clubs spending well beyond their means is a big issue, and dangerous in the extreme (say hello Newcastle), United certainly, and Liverpool probably are not in fact in this situation.

United are, and have continued to be, run perfectly well from a financial viewpoint. All money spent on players, wages, or anything else for that matter, is money that they have made through their footballing success. Surely that is exactly what we should be wishing for all clubs to do?

The only reason United are in debt is because the club was bought with money the buyer did not possess, and then the debts incurred by that purchase were transferred to the club itself. Which is mindbogglingly stupid in the great scheme of things. How can that happen? But here we are. And even with the incredibly large debt that therefore exists, United still manage to service that debt capably and make a profit to allow them to continue to develop.

Given the choice, if we had to be sold, I would have preferred to be bought by someone who could actually afford the club, but this is the situation.
 

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Other clubs situations are even more complicated.

Chelsea appear to be in fantastic shape, as their buyer did not have a shortage of money, and did not have to take on lots of debt and then tranfer it to the club. But on the other hand, apparently a lot of the money Chelsea has spent recently has been taken from Roman as interest free loans. If he ever leaves and demands them back, they could be up the creek.

Liverpool have only half as much debt as United, but their owners seem a bit clueless. If they do manage to procure the loan to build the new stadium, then they will have at least the same debt as United, if not more. If they do not though, they remain in the situation they are now - which is that the interest payments on the current loans add up to more than the clubs profit. Things can therefore only get worse? And that's assuming that they aren't forced to repay the loans in full next month, which could happen!
In reality though, I don't think the Liverpool fans have to worry long-term (unfortunately :D ). The club is too big, and will never be allowed to die. If things become bad, your owners will be forced to sell, and you'll probably end up with an Oligarch like City or Chelsea. Of course that will remove the 'we haven't got as much money' excuse you've been using for the past 5 years despite Rafa outspending Fergie (net) throughout his tenure. :D

City - I don't know about them. I've not heard anything about loans from the owners. Maybe they're just being bankrolled with no strings attached?
 

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If, on the other hand, you just want to talk about player prices and wages rather than club debt, I don't really know where I stand on that.

People talk about wages being obscene - but clubs make a massive amount of money. Where should that money go? Who earns that money for the club more than the 11 players on the pitch? If they don't deserve it for providing the skill which brings in the money, who does deserve it? Some guy in a suit whose skill was to arrange a loan to allow him to afford the club?

And the player prices, well they're created by the market within which they are sold. As said before, players make the clubs massive amounts of money, and as such are incredibly valuable assets. When Beckham went to Madrid for approx £20 million (can't remember exactly) it was said that by the time he played his first game for them, they had already made a profit on him by selling merchandise.

So, all of those things combined, who is to blame? It's us. The punters. We are, when you get down to the final conclusion, the only reason why all of this happens.
 

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I don't agree with it all, but this is reasonably thought provoking on the subject:
Footballers' wages obscene? That's rich - Times Online

Also, I don't know why I've written such a massive wall of text, nor why I've spread it over 4 posts. Perhaps it;s relief at finding a subject I can get my teeth into which doesn't make me uneasy about people's attitude towards others. Apologies :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I don't agree with it all, but this is reasonably thought provoking on the subject:
Footballers' wages obscene? That's rich - Times Online

Also, I don't know why I've written such a massive wall of text, nor why I've spread it over 4 posts. Perhaps it;s relief at finding a subject I can get my teeth into which doesn't make me uneasy about people's attitude towards others. Apologies :eek:
Its actually quite nice to make a thread where people can discuss without fear of retribution - keep it up Bazza :thumbs:

Have you quite finished :rolleyes:
:cheese:
 
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personally i stopped being interested in 'the beautiful game' many years ago when it became waaaay to commercialized and expensive for Joe public to watch a domestic match let alone something at championship level

i know of a few people who have done this, even supporting lower level clubs now is an expensive pastime....

As cruel as it sounds what is required now is some sort of mediation by the FA in order to control the spend within the game, similar to what has/is being done in F1
at the risk of sounding corny its time to level the playing field, no doubt it you were to give a team like Plymouth Argyle (my local team) the budget that Man U, Chelsea or Liverpool have they would be able to field a top quality team that would be premiership contenders...Man City are a great example of this, back in the mid 90's they were threatened with relegation to the 3rd division, the only time you got a Manchester Derby was when they were doing either a charity event or something like the FA cup
 

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But Jay, United's money has entirely come from success in football, and building on that. How and why would it be fair to take that away from them?

I can sort of see your point with money which is entirely garnered externally (and for that matter money taken out of the game) but I don't know how anything could possibly be done about it.
 
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In my opinion, the games obsession with money will end at some point. Sadly we're going to have see a big side go to the wall before that happens.
 

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What concerns me about the game nowadays is just how little the gate money means in the grand scheme of things, and therefore by definition how inconsequential the supporters who attend games are to the clubs and the authorities that run the game.

Take my little old club Fulham. If you look at the make up of our income every year - our gate money is around 30% of our total revenue and falling.

When I started going regularly 30 years ago, gate money was just about the total income of any football club ergo we were the lifeblood of the club.

When I go to Craven Cottage nowadays I am refused permission to bring in a drinks bottle with a lid on it, I am searched for offensive weapons, I am corralled into my seat (SEAT!) by stewards who then watch my every move to ensure I do not get too verbal, I do not stand up and i do not create any issues for families/the handicapped or ladies present when we score. It is too dangerous for me to be allowed to stand, or consume alcohol in my seat. At the end of the game, the notorious FFC firm (yeah... right!) get marshalled out by mounted police and more HiVis dressed stewards to ensure we don't start a riot.... I am mostly only allowed to sit quietly and watch the game punctuated by trips to the fabulously overpriced concessions to buy junk for Harrods prices.

Why can I be treated like this? Because frankly the paying attendee at a football match is becoming an increasing burden for many clubs. It would be soooo much cheaper to play without crowds, no expensive stadia, no police bills, no need for stewards and tickets and turnstiles - just loads of luvverly Sky money pouring in every season. The TV viewers could still watch, and be advertised to, and buy their merchandise. They could always play taped crowd noises as required I suppose.

Who cars at the FA, or Premier League hq, or even the directors of FFC if I get squished out of the game either by the price of tickets or just the squalid way I am treated as an attendee in the crowd.

I'm not renewing my season ticket next season for the first time in a decade..... :cry:

(Sidenote : It's curious that it is too dangerous for me to stand in a stationary concrete stadium, but okay for me to stand on a South West Trains carriage every morning travelling at 60 mph wedged in with 100s of others cheek by jowel trying to keep our balance)
 

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I would say that the supporters as a whole have only themselves to balme for how we're all treated, it;s not about money. The 80's weren't all that long ago.
 
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