Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,969 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
your employee records? from the Human Resources files at your
place of emplyoment over the years gone by, such as mine, the hospital


does the employee have the rights to view what comments may have been made
by all and sundry if the records have been made official


...what I'm talking about is not the offical letters you get, but the additional
comments and concerns made by others that you never get to hear about at all
but yet have been recorded for all in the future to take out of complete context
and shuffle like a permanent statistic ... I do ask for a reason

Thank you if any one knows the ins and outs of this minefield:)
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
23,040 Posts
Note sure Quinn.

All I know is that our HR (previously Personnel) records were "weeded" a few years back. I have been there almost 40 years and all it shows now is when I started and my sick/annual leave records.

They used to be made available to the latest manager when people retired - it gave a bit of history and something to base a speech on - gave a bit of history into one's life. Warts and all.

However - I guess the "weeding" was done prior to one's right to to see what "data" is held about you under the Data Protection Act.

Bottom line? - don't worry about it - only pure facts (dates of absence etc.) are now held - any "opinions" will have been destroyed long ago and are no longer recorded as you would have the right to see them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,969 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Note sure Quinn.

All I know is that our HR (previously Personnel) records were "weeded" a few years back. I have been there almost 40 years and all it shows now is when I started and my sick/annual leave records.

They used to be made available to the latest manager when people retired - it gave a bit of history and something to base a speech on - gave a bit of history into one's life. Warts and all.

However - I guess the "weeding" was done prior to one's right to to see what "data" is held about you under the Data Protection Act.

Bottom line? - don't worry about it - only pure facts (dates of absence etc.) are now held - any "opinions" will have been destroyed long ago and are no longer recorded as you would have the right to see them.

thanks for that Paul ... but are you sure that certain opinions about someone, then,
are not carried over by word of mouth ... which is what I fear, as if it's an unsolvable
reputation ... there's not much of a way out of that is there?


what I mean by that is, not HR maybe, but continuing management wink and nod at
each other as if to say "well, he's good...but I do remember back in 2006" ... this and
that ...and we all know HR take a note of that:eek::)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
963 Posts
I think you'll find that, because much of a personnel file can be accessed, that they can be quite heavily sanitised. The files can be accessed upon demand, at worst on a data access request, but they will not be complete.

The employer can withhold sensitive information relating to legal advice and previous references as well as sensitive management /strategic planning.

Your rights to access this information remain the same even after you leave employment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,969 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I think you'll find that, because much of a personnel file can be accessed, that they can be quite heavily sanitised. The files can be accessed upon demand, at worst on a data access request, but they will not be complete.

The employer can withhold sensitive information relating to legal advice and previous references as well as sensitive management /strategic planning.

Your rights to access this information remain the same even after you leave employment.
Thanks again, Abyss, so what you mean is I can access the sanitised records
but never know what what was scribbled out with a pencil and rubber and nodded
at rather than recorded ... that does affect us all
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
963 Posts
Thanks again, Abyss, so what you mean is I can access the sanitised records
but never know what what was scribbled out with a pencil and rubber and nodded
at rather than recorded ... that does affect us all
The record keeping of every company will be different, and it is unrealistic to expect that every mention of you anywhere in the company will be in your file. Contrary to popular belief, HR are not generally big brother.

What you may find is that you're mentioned elsewhere in strategic documents, and they may not be relevant to HR but may be sensitive and not available to view. This may be the case if you're a key man.

In all my experience of work there will always be a good deal of sentiment that is articulated but is not in a personnel file. That's completely normal and is little more than people's opinions. Those, rightly or wrongly, can play a major role in decision making. That's nothing to do with HR - that's the way we conduct ourselves and how others perceive us. It isn't what you know, it's who you know used to be the phrase. These days it is equally it isn't what you do it's how you do it.

So much depends on company culture and how an individual fits into it. In my experience, if an employee asks for their HR file, then there is likely to be trouble ahead, be that a difficult conversation or worse. Be prepared to deal with the impression you may give, even if it isn't what you intended.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,969 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
The record keeping of every company will be different, and it is unrealistic to expect that every mention of you anywhere in the company will be in your file. Contrary to popular belief, HR are not generally big brother.

What you may find is that you're mentioned elsewhere in strategic documents, and they may not be relevant to HR but may be sensitive and not available to view. This may be the case if you're a key man.

In all my experience of work there will always be a good deal of sentiment that is articulated but is not in a personnel file. That's completely normal and is little more than people's opinions. Those, rightly or wrongly, can play a major role in decision making. That's nothing to do with HR - that's the way we conduct ourselves and how others perceive us. It isn't what you know, it's who you know used to be the phrase. These days it is equally it isn't what you do it's how you do it.

So much depends on company culture and how an individual fits into it. In my experience, if an employee asks for their HR file, then there is likely to be trouble ahead, be that a difficult conversation or worse. Be prepared to deal with the impression you may give, even if it isn't what you intended.
the way to go is always to stay calm ... they don't expect that
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,172 Posts
Quinn, I think it depends on how the records are stored. You should be able to view electronic data but not necessarily paper based data.

But the important questions are: have you asked and what did they say?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,969 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
No difference.

Quinn, you say you work in a Hospital, and you are clearly not in HR. Is this a private or NHS hospital, and what dept are you in?
Hello Keithy ... NHS ... Histology Department, certainly not HR, am not that ruthless

- I shan't go on about it any more, because I think what I'm really asking about
is impossible to solve by any one but me:thumbs:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,649 Posts
You have, in effect, two files. ESR, electronic staff record, is your 'HR' record, on a national computer system. This has your annual leave, pension, sickness absence, salary grade etc info on it. HR know nothing about this and, unless you are in the habit of sexually assaulting co-irkers or taking them to tribunal they will be blissfully unaware of your existence.

When did you last have a bit of paper to confirm your contact details etc etc?

Other file is your personal/personnel file, should be compiled by your manager, contain your various references etc etc, together with any warnings you may have managed to get.

Both are irrelevant if your manager/their line manager don't like you.

This is no different to anywhere else in the world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,890 Posts
you are entitled to see everything in your file. Only exceptions to releasing of information are things like national security. Nothing that will prevent you seeing your info.

The realistic thing is that there is nothing to stop them sanitising first. That would be illegal, but no one would ever know!

You right is not immediate, they have 30 days (or so, forget exactly) to comply after receipt of your data protection application...more than enough time for a jobsworth to look out for big brother and weed out the silly stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,986 Posts
That is incorrect Bob, the employer has the right to remove anything that it feels should not be on file, prior to disclosure and remove it. Often you will find that has already happened anyway.

Another point Quinn, you ask for anything that refers to you. Not just HR files. Does your manager have a drive on their machine or server that contains working records? Under Freedom of Information you have to put your request in writing, they have 20 days to deal with it.

If you feel you are being stonewalled or blocked contact Data Protection and Freedom of Information advice - ICO Trust me they can check and bring bodies to account for their actions. As for senior managers and the winks because of 2006, that is likely to be your own fault and deserved.
 
P

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
When I worked for corporations you basically had six monthly objectives that you agreed to and then you would have six month appraisals where you would discuss on how well you are meeting those objectives. A little bit more complicated with gradings etc. You might not agree with the appraisals and you were allowed to have your comments on record.

Surely there would be tons of stuff you are not allowed to have access to. If management is making a comparison between your abilities in comparison with others which they are allowed to do, you shouldn't be able just to waltz up and look at these. For starters it's an invasion of privacy of the other people involved. If they have plans for you whether good or bad that's another example of data I think you shouldn't have access to. You can't just go in willy-nilly and look at strategic directions of a company just because you're mentioned.

In other words I feel that management has lots of rights to keep you away from documentation where you are somehow involved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,158 Posts
Corporations have long memories. The problematic stuff isn't the stuff that's written down, it's the folklore passed on about you that matters.

If you once got steaming drunk at the christmas party, danced like a lunatic, threw up on the buffet and had to be carried out by your mates - then that won't be on your HR file (unless you goosed the MDs wife) but it will be your reputation and you will be (rightly) referred to as "the plonker who puked at the christmas party" every time you are discussed for a promotion/transfer/pay rise. Now whether that behavioural reputation helps or hinders your career will depend on the company you work for!

That stuff can't be erased via a Data Protection request.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,986 Posts
When I worked for corporations you basically had six monthly objectives that you agreed to and then you would have six month appraisals where you would discuss on how well you are meeting those objectives. A little bit more complicated with gradings etc. You might not agree with the appraisals and you were allowed to have your comments on record.

Surely there would be tons of stuff you are not allowed to have access to. If management is making a comparison between your abilities in comparison with others which they are allowed to do, you shouldn't be able just to waltz up and look at these. For starters it's an invasion of privacy of the other people involved. If they have plans for you whether good or bad that's another example of data I think you shouldn't have access to. You can't just go in willy-nilly and look at strategic directions of a company just because you're mentioned.

In other words I feel that management has lots of rights to keep you away from documentation where you are somehow involved.
UK law very much changed in early 2000's. If a body has information on about yourself, there is an entitlement under the act to have this information disclosed. Data protection and other acts can make restrictions on this. For example the Census act ensures the data is kept confidential for 100 years.

Anyway, organisations should retain documents on it's staff that it would not be prepared to share with that individual. If they don't, that says quite a lot about their ethics, and to me is a spineless. Say what you think about someone to seek ways to change what it is you don't like.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,969 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Corporations have long memories. The problematic stuff isn't the stuff that's written down, it's the folklore passed on about you that matters.

If you once got steaming drunk at the christmas party, danced like a lunatic, threw up on the buffet and had to be carried out by your mates - then that won't be on your HR file (unless you goosed the MDs wife) but it will be your reputation and you will be (rightly) referred to as "the plonker who puked at the christmas party" every time you are discussed for a promotion/transfer/pay rise. Now whether that behavioural reputation helps or hinders your career will depend on the company you work for!

That stuff can't be erased via a Data Protection request.
That is what I meant all along :thumbs: ... it takes a good man to overcome all
that rubbish ... and I did today. again by wit :)
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top