[Alfa male 1]

does any one else on here have a 159 2008 lusso that has a black plastic plenum chamber (inlet manifold) with no swirl valves It is a 150Bhp and is defo 16 valve? multyjet engine.

please help if you have any information thank you this is my first Alfa.

engine cover says JTDm.

the engine is the same as my vauxhall Signum and Zafira just has different inlet manifold fitted a plastic one.

thank you

Mark flintshire UK

 

[david44]

I have a 1.9jtdm 16v (150bhp) that has a Black Plastic Inlet Manifold- Car was Registered in begin Nov 2007.
I didn't realise there was any significance- tell me more ??

david44

 

[cloverleaf159]

yeah, why have you come across a problem? please tell?

 

[johnnygal]

does any one else on here have a 159 2008 lusso that has a black plastic plenum chamber (inlet manifold) with no swirl valves It is a 150Bhp and is defo 16 valve? multyjet engine.

please help if you have any information thank you this is my first Alfa.

engine cover says JTDm.

the engine is the same as my vauxhall Signum and Zafira just has different inlet manifold fitted a plastic one.

thank you

Mark flintshire UK

Yep, just checked my 2008 and it has a black plenum. I can see no obvious rod/bar for the swirl valve operation. Is the bar really easy to see if there is one?

My engine cover says "JTDm 16v"

 

[Alfa male 1]

hi there isnt a problem and I wasn't aware Alfa had dropped the swirl valves. When vauxhall and Saab have not. My 159 1.9jtdm seems to run fine so I wondered why they were ever fitted As no one seems to have picked up on here that the later cars dont have them. I was being told to go and look again etc! like you could miss them lol after owning 2 cars with the same engine for over 5 years!

All the posts on here people are having problems and paying up to £1000 at a dealers to get the inlet manifold replaced or about £450 DIY JOB FOR ALL THE PARTs NEEDED.

So I will post on how she runs after remap next week. When I picked 159 up she was definatly slower and less powerful than my remapped dpf removed zafira cdti 150 I was preying the dealer would not notice lol.

Mark Flintshire

 

[FixitSan]

Add me to the list of black inlet manifold owners.
I had read nightmares about swirl valve problems, so when I got this car I was surprised to see there were no valves fitted.
This car was first registered December 2008, I wonder how far back this particular manifold goes.

I wonder if guys with swirl flap problems could fit a later manifold and eliminate them completely, or perhaps they would need to be deleted in software at the ECU ?

 

[GroovyBoovy]

I am sure I have read it on this forum that swirl flaps have been dropped in later models as they are more bother than they are worth, odd

 

[cona]

I have a 2006 1.9 JTDm 8v (120bhp) without swirl valves. As far as I am told on this forum, this engine never had ones.

 

[pwaes]

All the posts on here people are having problems and paying up to £1000 at a dealers to get the inlet manifold replaced. or about £450 DIY JOB FOR ALL THE PARTs NEEDED.


Mark Flintshire

450 GBP? Just the manifold with the 'piece of paper': 200 EUR (around 170 GBP).

Your inlet manifold swirl valves aren't the only problem. Have you ever seen what's inside your manifold because of the EGR? It's just fully stucked with black 'paste'. The 'runners' from my manifold where decreased around 25%. The runners from the swirl valves where decreased around 40%.

With my new manifold, I'm gaining more than 10% fuel economy, back to around 16 km p/l (around 39 mpg). EGR isn't closed (this weekend).

To maintain a good condition of your manifold, my opinion is that you have to close the EGR! It's very bad for all the components from the inlet, and also the VNT-system from your turbocharger.

 

[coolbits]

120hp (8V) engine does not have swirl valves... only 16V do, even those with black plastic intake.
Swirl valves on plastic intake are not visible but they are there, just better design...

http://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/data/1769/medium/DSCF3780.JPG

 

[FixitSan]

120hp (8V) engine does not have swirl valves... only 16V do, even those with black plastic intake.
Swirl valves on plastic intake are not visible but they are there, just better design...

http://www.fiatforum.com/gallery/data/1769/medium/DSCF3780.JPG

coolbits, where did you get that image from ?
It doesn't show the intake from a 16V jtdm , but from another engine.

Bolted directly to my 16v head is a short cast aluminium manifold runner, and attached to that is the black plastic plenum. (in your photo the manifold assembly, including the section which bolts to the head, is plastic throughout)

There are no additional actuators hanging down around the manifold and I can only assume there are no swirl valves.

If there are no swirl valves, is an EGR delete ever going to pay for itself, I wonder ?

Chris

 

[coolbits]

Yes its different engine but similar intake and swirl valves. EGR delete is always worth it

Image is from here:
http://www.fiatforum.com/stilo/189887-jtd-16v-swirl-flaps.html

 

[FixitSan]

Yes its different engine but similar intake and swirl valves. EGR delete is always worth it

Image is from here:
Technical: jtd 16v swirl flaps - The FIAT Forum

That plastic manifold, pictured, is vastly different to the device on my 1.9 16v JTDm motor.
Mainly the manifold on my car is much smaller than that pictured and doesn't have the space for a slide valve. It also doesn't have an actuator which would be required to move them.

Assuming there are no swirl valves, or a slide valve, what will an EGR delete gain for the sometimes ridiculous costs some companies are charging ? I've seen a £200 EGR delete advertised. in terms of fuel saving, or performance, or driveability, will that £200 be better spent buying top quality diesel instead ?

Assuming I do have swirl valves, they're invisible and operated by a hidden actuator !

All of the replacement inlet manifolds listed anywhere, show an alloy replacement, which is a different design to the plastic version, and you can see where the actuator for the swirl flaps operates them. You couldn't fit one of these replacement manifolds to my engine because there is no actuator. Unless the new manifold arrived with an actuator, wiring sub-harness etc and instructions identifying the different types of original manifold, which I don't think they do, this black manifold system is unique, and the fact that i can't seem to find one listed anywhere suggests they aren't replaced very often.

Chris

EDIT - I just had this idea - does anyone know if the swirl valve actuator is visible using either AlfaOBD or FES ? I know the EGR valve can be actuated manually in software, but what about the swirl valve ? If yoiu have the old alloy manifold with swirl valves and a copy of AlfaOBD or FES, can yoiu check if yoiu can operate the swirl valves remotely, please

It's just that i don't remember ever seeing swirl valve actuator in the device list in AlfaOBD or FES. I presume that the existence of the device in the software program could be an indicator as to whether one is fitted or not ?

 

[a2themfk]

Mines a 06 16v 150hp and ive the swirl valves, i had the car about a few weeks and first noticed the actuator rod had fell off but the car was driving fine so i didnt worry about it. A few weeks later the car was low on power below 2k rpm so i claeaned out the egr and re attached the rod, think it was the egr rather than the rod as it was going great with it off for weeks. Car was fine again and the rod has stayed in place now going on 5 weeks. I was prepared to replace the manifold as i read the rod would fall off again but it hasn't and the valves are all prity free. Ive just had a remapp inc the egr delete and the car going like a dream, when i had the egr off the inlet manifold looked pritty coked up and there is residue around the swirl valve tops but im not keen to replace the inlet manifold untill i start getting problems, esp as i read now theres a manifold without them. It would be good to know if the swirless manifold could be fitted with no adverse effects. Are the swirl vales actuated in conjunction with the egr and if so is having it deleted make a difference ?

 

[coolbits]

There is swirl valve actuator in FES and you can hear the actuator move when you start the test even on plastic black intake... This is why i know they are there.

 

[Joomoo]

1.9 jtdm 8v do not have swirl valves. 1.9 jtdm 16v build after 2008 do not have swirl valves.
closing the egr is a thing to do as in longer time it will clough up the inlet manifold. ald it is not a good idea to have hot exaust smoke reentering into the engine. it is only to drop polution by reusing it.
the car runs better with the egr closed do to higher oxigen concentration in fuel air mix.
best thing I ever did was taking dfg and closing egr... Without remaping power.
still 120hp but at least it runs like a normal car and not having problems when starting cold or cuting at 1500-20 rpm. now I drive a reliable car.
and it is possible to clean a inlet without swirls.
the ones with swirls can be cleaned but you cannot fix the swirls if they get loose.
lots of bmws broke engines do to swirls beeing suckt into engine.

 

[Viking]

Swirl in the plastic manifold ... - it surprised me too

My Alfa 1.9 JTDM 150HP (939A2000) 11/2006
also has a plastic manifold without visible swirl actuator.

Anyone have part number for the black plastic intake / manifold?

Manifold is filled with soot and "junk"

I have cleaned the EGR and the tube in front of the manifold.

EGR is disabled in the software and the engine is optimized for 180HP / 400 NM :thumbs:
The car runs ok, but the engine shakes at cold start.

I have several times cleaned the manifold with intake cleaner (sprayed through turbo and intercooler)

Hope to learn more
regards, Jens @ Denmark

 

[FixitSan]

I can concede there are swirl valves in the alloy manifold bolted to the head, not in the plastic manifold.
They're not slide valves either but by the looks of it they're regulr swivel vane valves.

They're actuated by a mechanism underneath the manifold. I got the car on the ramps and disconnected a few things to get a good look, but there is definitely some sort of mechanism hidden beneath a platic cover, bolted to the underside of the short alloy runner connecting the head to the black plastic plenum.

I'll connect up the laptop when I can to make sure they actuate. it looks like it'll be more of a bugger to change than the previous all alloy version.

Chris

 

[Viking]

Holy Cow

My intake

Plastic part "Part NO." 551850220

(pic. from ebay)

Metal manifold part number I can't find
- assume that intake consists of two parts, the plastic part and metal manifold.

 

[FixitSan]

Viking, thats the same as my intake setup. I've circled a couple of points in yoiur image where I believe there are bearings inside the manifold. On the opposite side (the underside) of the manifold, there is a plastic cap over each similar area and over that a plastic cover which i imagine has the actuation mechanism.

Bolted to the rear of the engine block is a plate which normally carries the control unit for the earlier swirl valve system. Behind that plate is a large alloy block with a plastic cover on the base. It seems to have a rotating output shaft which I guess connects up the swirl valve mechanism.

I haven't seen the short alloy manifold that we have on eBay, anywhere. Either they don't fail, or they are rare. Or, they just don't have swirl valves and the actuators I have seen are for something else, which I think is most unlikely.

My car was registered in Dec 2008 and has 124k miles on the clock. The EGR isn't too bad and, touch wood, I don't get any swirl valve related errors. An ECU scan after I bought the car showed no errors and last week it still shows no errors.

Could it be that the later version we have makes use of the upgraded bearing system used in the replacement early version manifolds ? I don't have access to spares, but i wouldn't mind knowing more


Chris