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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so the scene:

Last night, I was driving home from university and on the dual carriageway was driving between 90 and 95 with my Mito in Normal

Despite there being nobody behind me, someone decided to pull out in front of me with very little gap at around 55mph (on a three lane road).

Now, this has happened once before with my car in Dynamic (although I was going slightly less than 90 that time) and when I was forced to slam on my brakes in Dynamic, it wasn't quite as scary as yesterday.

To avoid having a big shunt, I had to jump, quite forcefully, on the brakes. With the car in Normal, the ridiculously light steering (which I don't think is safe at high speeds as it is, because of its lack of weight, although I still do moderate speed distance driving in normal) was all over the shop. I was trying desperately to keep it straight, but the steering is so light that it's not easy because any slight movement leads the the wheel being tugged.

Why aren't Alfa capable of having an EPAS system which is any good?
A lot of car companies use them and they weight up at speed, like standard, well-calibrated steering - the Range Rover Evoque engineer said it was so good he was looking at ways to incorporate it into all of their models and Porsche have it in their new 911 despite it providing almost zero economy gains.

I know this is seeming like a rant, but I just think Alfa should know that the DNA system is truly shocking. Every other car company manages to do well enough with one setting, yet even with two, Alfa still aren't good enough (although the Giulietta is on par with its rivals, the Mito isn't - not that I'd trade it in).

This system is ridiculous and shouldn't be on their future cars. They should just go out, do some testing and realise how rubbish it is.

Although Alfa Romeo are famously terrible at looking at customer complaints, I'd like to just let them know it's no good.
 

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There response would probably be along the lines of it wasn't designed for emergency stops at 95 mph
 

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The steering is pretty light in 'N' mode ... good for parking but .... I'm always in 'D' mode anyway ..especially when pressing on a bit :D

Not too sure you can compare a Mito with the likes of Porshe and Range Rover systems :eek:

As for compaining to AR... what are you expecting them to do exactly?
 

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Discussion Starter #5
There response would probably be along the lines of it wasn't designed for emergency stops at 95 mph
That's probably true, but the reality is, the same would've happened at 80 or 85 if someone pulled out going about 40 - European speed limits are 130km/h which is over 80mph and that's about where the steering started becoming a real problem, that's the thing.

Although they sell in Germany too... So really, it should be designed for emergency stops at around those speeds (which, let's be honest, aren't uncommon. Yesterday a Mito was driving me at about 90mph and we weren't the fastest cars on the road)

I just don't want to buy another car with such a terrible system, but I want another Alfa.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I don't think they've added weight, I think they've just improved road feel on it.

They just need one well-sorted setting.

The reason the Mito failed in Dynamic was because its loosens up the traction/stability control slightly. Really, though, I find Normal to be a problem. I'd rather drive around with steering which started off as Normal, then progressively worked its way to Dynamic's weight as you gain speed (as every car I've driven does).

a tad bit over the speed limit isnt it?
I'm not disputing that, but the car is sold in countries with more lax speed limits than we have here, so that's not particularly relevant.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The steering is pretty light in 'N' mode ... good for parking but .... I'm always in 'D' mode anyway ..especially when pressing on a bit :D

Not too sure you can compare a Mito with the likes of Porshe and Range Rover systems :eek:

As for compaining to AR... what are you expecting them to do exactly?
The Mito and the Range Rover are just two firms who have recently (i.e. this year) decided to use EPAS - I'm not sure who else does, to be honest.

I would like to always be in D mode, but my commute is painfully long and the petrol consumption in Dynamic is horrible.

It's one of those customer feedback enquiries that most firms do; "what's good about your car, what don't you want on your next one?" --> I don't want this terrible steering.
 

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Epas on the MiTo is crap & DNA is a gimmick IMHO (does nothing actually).

Did you not test drive the car?

D is best but be aware that the VDC becomes very laid back to the point where NCAP said it wasn't up to scratch.

Bottom line is look past the end of your bonnet and constantly assess the risks before doing 25 over the posted limit. If you were doing 70 the situation would have been manageble.

FYI, Epas on the G is OK and other makers do a good job with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Epas on the MiTo is crap & DNA is a gimmick IMHO (does nothing actually).

Did you not test drive the car?

D is best but be aware that the VDC becomes very laid back to the point where NCAP said it wasn't up to scratch.

Bottom line is look past the end of your bonnet and constantly assess the risks before doing 25 over the posted limit. If you were doing 70 the situation would have been manageble.

FYI, Epas on the G is OK and other makers do a good job with it.
A few points here:
1 - Agree on crap EPAS and DNA.
2 - I did - and have had my car for 30 months now - and I still don't mind it. I can live with it; normal is fine in town, but in this instance it would've been safer to have a better system.
3 - Again, I've had my car for ages, so I'm well used to it and realise it is definitely a little looser on the ESP and Stability control, so that's not a problem.
4 - I agree here; however, you assume it wasn't just a strange incident but more an effect of my inattentiveness. I'm constantly analysing risks in the road; this one was one which turned from something with pretty low risk into this situation pretty quickly.

I'm not the kind of driver who just bombs around everywhere regardless; I, like yourself, will only drive quickly if the situation is safe and I can honestly say until this driver swerved into my lane (and they weren't exactly close to the car in front of them, so I'm still not sure why it happened), there wasn't much wrong.

It's just that A-road and motorway driving should probably have been taken into account for a situation like this. While I'm perfectly happy with it as it is, constructive criticism - and responding to it - might actually help Alfa's future cars (and I know a lot of people don't see any reason to the DNA system).

(Secretly, the only reason for it is I want a 4C but don't want this rubbish! The steering on my brother's GTi was pretty nice...)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
What's all the f***in fuss about?


You DIDN'T crash!
I can't tell if that's aimed at my rant :lol:

You're right, it's just one of those things where I'd rather it wasn't something I'd notice, if you know what I mean - and something to improve in the future.

EDIT: Just noticed you'd gotten rid of the 156! Your GTV is gorgeous - I love the colour combination. Not one I see very often; nice wheels too.
 
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You're getting a bit of grief over the back story here aren't you ? At the risk of straying off topic a bit more and sounding like an old giffer :rolleyes: here's 2p worth from me.

My Dad has always said to me that "It's not you I worry about it's the other people on the road" and it seems this is a classic case of that.

Had you come to grief (and I'm really glad you didn't by the way :thumbs:) you, or indeed your grieving family, would have thought that the bloke who pullled out in front of you was squarely in the one of "the other people on the road" category, after all he didn't indicate and pulled out right in front of you without warning or seemingly good reason.

By comparison his view, or indeed that of his grieving family, would be that not all it was in fact you who was one of "the other people on the road" after all you were 25mph over the speedlimit and he was taken unawares by this unexpected and illegal turn of pace on a 70mph stretch of road.

I had my own moment of realisation about three years ago when I was in my Brera on the M6 late at night on a quiet motorway at what was frankly an idiotic speed some way in excess of the one you've owned up to when for no apparent reason or need some old geezer in a 7 Series just meandered across in front of me with no prior indication. Never have I been so scared in all my life and never will I ever drive like that again. Long and the short of it is you can drive as quickly as you like, you can be as attentive as humanly possible, you can have excellent reactions but all the while there are other people around on the road with you you run the risk of calamity as not everybody sees, feels and computes decisions in the same way that you do.

The moral of the story is thus - sooner or later we'll all become one of "the other people on the road" more often than not at the same time a somebody else in close proximity does the same.

Right sermon over, no more pontificating. Back to DNA in the MiTo, in my limited experience it's rubbish, ineffectual and a marketing gimmick. The Active Dynamics on my forthcoming evoque however are marvellous...........:thumbs::D
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
You're getting a bit of grief over the back story here aren't you ? At the risk of straying off topic a bit more and sounding like an old giffer :rolleyes: here's 2p worth from me.

My Dad has always said to me that "It's not you I worry about it's the other people on the road" and it seems this is a classic case of that.

Had you come to grief (and I'm really glad you didn't by the way :thumbs:) you, or indeed your grieving family, would have thought that the bloke who pullled out in front of you was squarely in the one of "the other people on the road" category, after all he didn't indicate and pulled out right in front of you without warning or seemingly good reason.


By comparison his view, or indeed that of his grieving family, would be that not all it was in fact you who was one of "the other people on the road" after all you were 25mph over the speedlimit and he was taken unawares by this unexpected and illegal turn of pace on a 70mph stretch of road.

I had my own moment of realisation about three years ago when I was in my Brera on the M6 late at night on a quiet motorway at what was frankly an idiotic speed some way in excess of the one you've owned up to when for no apparent reason or need some old geezer in a 7 Series just meandered across in front of me with no prior indication. Never have I been so scared in all my life and never will I ever drive like that again. Long and the short of it is you can drive as quickly as you like, you can be as attentive as humanly possible, you can have excellent reactions but all the while there are other people around on the road with you you run the risk of calamity as not everybody sees, feels and computes decisions in the same way that you do.

The moral of the story is thus - sooner or later we'll all become one of "the other people on the road" more often than not at the same time a somebody else in close proximity does the same.

Right sermon over, no more pontificating. Back to DNA in the MiTo, in my limited experience it's rubbish, ineffectual and a marketing gimmick. The Active Dynamics on my forthcoming evoque however are marvellous...........:thumbs::D
You're getting an Evoque?! You wonderful man - I'd love one of those as my next car if I can afford one (although the 4C price remains to be seen, along with my financial means next time).

Thanks for the long (and well reasoned) post - and yeah, I'm generally well aware of the "other people" moments you're talking of. I always think about what risk others are going to cause (if a car in the left lane is catching a car in front, I'll always slow down to make sure it isn't going to come into my lane, but this one pulled out for reasons unbeknownst to myself. Your points are all true though - especially about people looking at it in different ways; it's always the case that people lambast someone for driving above the speed limit here (the majority of whom probably don't stick to them themselves), but as you said, it's something that you have to be wary of.

With the Evoque (and every other car I can think of), the steering has one setting where they've tuned it correctly. Light in town (as with all of our cars) and heavier at speed, as it should be. Normal mode is a complete waste of space, but Dynamic's throttle response is too aggressive.

My original point is one which seems to have been missed, though. Surely we should be letting Alfa know about the problems so it doesn't make the same mistakes again? Most car companies seem to take into account their end consumers' advice and then analyse it.

It is, perhaps the driver of the car that pulled out on you wasnt be expecting you to be travelling at 20-25+mph over the speed limit?
As I said previously, that's what mirrors are for. I don't pull out without checking my mirrors.

Although I expected comments like this, surely you're not realising that somebody pulled into the 3rd lane of a dual carriageway at 55mph and that's also 15mph from the limit - my friend failed his test for driving 5 miles or so of dual carriageway between 60 and 65mph because he should be driving at the speed limit.

A 20mph or so difference is easier than one closer to 40mph; easy to criticise as it may be, surely we should be analysing the entire situation if we're going to point out speeds rather than the actual point being made?
 

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There response would probably be along the lines of it wasn't designed for emergency stops at 95 mph
Some Italian motorways have 150kmh speed limits which is within a gnats of 95.

Suspect the reason DNA has been fitted is so that they can fiddle the cars through emissions testing (including CO2 rating) on a fueling setup that they know few will use.

All the best

Keith
 
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