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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I always had a plan to put a 2,0TS into my car. Sharp, tuned, re-bulilt 2,0TS, not a standard one.
Now my friend is breaking a 156 1,8 TS and I can have his engine and gearbox almost for free (strong argument :) ). But I really want a 2,0litre (re-bored to 84mm) and I need to know if 1,8 and 2,0 blocks are the same length and if 2,0TS crank would fit. I want to use forged pistons and con-rods for 2,0 so I would need to change these even if I got a 2,0 to start with. Cylinder heads are the same.
I know 2,0 has balancer shafts in the block, in this regard I prefer 1,8 as I have one less thing to eliminate.

Thanks
 

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No reason why you couldn't bore a 1.8 block out to the same size as your plans for a 2.0 block.. Check regarding the crank though. What cams are you intending to use?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The bore is not an issue, all TS from 1,6 to 2,0 have the same cylinder spacing, 90mm between axes of cylinders. this means crank geometry regarding spacing of con rods is OK. My only issue is whether the 1,8 block is not shorter than 2,0 and if with the 2,0 stroke the pistons dont come out of the block.
I plan to use Colombo Bariani fast road cams in a gas flowed head.
 
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What's the power difference between the 2 blocks? Like 5BHP isn't it? Not much whatever the case. Having been out in a 1.8 Twinny I can safely say if there is any performance increase in the 2.0 block is not noticeable at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thats true, but if you are going to modify a N/A engine seriously as I plan, better to start with larger capacity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have a 1,6. If I put in 2,0 the engine, it looks exactly the same and at MOT (at least in Slovakia) nobody will notice a difference. If I put a V6 in, it would be obvious something is different :) It is legal here to change engine only for the same type. As I dont plan to sell my 147 in the future and kee it as a weekend car for fun, there is not a big chance somebody would inspect engine numbers.
And I dont like the V6 weight for a smal car as 147.
 
G

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Ah right, fair enough then, funnily enough I was thinking about buying a 1.8 Twinspark 156 and stick a 2.5 V6 engine in there, :lol:

But the great big inlet pipes might give the game away, :lol:
 

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I wouldn't be suprised if the 2 litre block is taller, as it needs to be bigger in either crank case or bore length due to the longer stroke.

Outright performance is 1 second different 0-60 between the 1.8 and 2 litre, but the 2 litre has more torque.
 

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Bore x Stroke:

1.6 - 82x 75.54
1.8 - 82x 82.7
2.0 - 83x 91.00

Yes the spacings are all the same, thus the cylinder heads fit all 3

The 2.0 litre does indeed have a different block, housing the balance shafts for a kick off with a different pulley arrangement.

The inlet manifold differs from your 1.6 as well as its an active part, you would need the 2 litre ECU as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It looks like it is better to source a 2,0 engine. As if I invest serious money into engine modification, the results of the same money invested will be much better with 2.0

@cj romeo - I already have variable manifold installed on 1,6. It is a straight fit, everything fits except one vacuum pipe that needs to be changed. ECUs are the same for 1.6, 1.8, 2.0. The 1.6 has just the feature disabled. If you use 1,8 or 2,0 cable harness that has a lead for the intake solenoid and upload a 1,8 or 2,0 software to your ECU, it works. Or you can control it separately from ECU by a 12V switch :)
 
G

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The best thing about the 1.8's is the higher comp ratio than a 2 litre and for N/A tuning comp ratios are king along with head work. But if you are going to swap out the pistons it don't matter what engine you want.
 

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The best thing about the 1.8's is the higher comp ratio than a 2 litre
Not a huge difference.
10.3:1 for a 1.8/1.6
10.0:1 for a 2.0TS


As you say, if you are changing pistons anyway it doesn't matter too much what CR you start with, but if you want a 2.0 engine it is a lot easier to start with a 2.0, although the advantage of a free 1.8 engine also come into play.

Even if you don't use all of it, the free 1.8 engine & box would come in handy.
 

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@cj romeo - I already have variable manifold installed on 1,6. It is a straight fit, everything fits except one vacuum pipe that needs to be changed. ECUs are the same for 1.6, 1.8, 2.0. The 1.6 has just the feature disabled. If you use 1,8 or 2,0 cable harness that has a lead for the intake solenoid and upload a 1,8 or 2,0 software to your ECU, it works. Or you can control it separately from ECU by a 12V switch :)
I knew the ECU hardware wasnt different, I just wasnt so sure you could flash the bigger engines program into the ECU so easily!

Does the manifold give the 1.6 a bit more torque?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I knew the ECU hardware wasnt different, I just wasnt so sure you could flash the bigger engines program into the ECU so easily!

Does the manifold give the 1.6 a bit more torque?
I don’t use the switching; I have it in the short position all the time. I don’t have a 2,0 engine wiring loom and brand from a dealer is soooo expensive.

I have two types of MSD ignition rpm switches to control the intake, but neither works with TS ignition system to read rpm correctly.

There was a time I had a manual switch in the cabin to control the intake, but to be honest I didn’t feel much difference. ECU probably needs to be programmed to make use of it.

But a swap of intake chambers alone made a difference. Variable chamber is twice the size and the engine is much freer revving above 5k rpm. And it reacts better around 2,5k rpm. However the middle rev range is not so great, but this might be due to exhaust as well.
 
G

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Not a huge difference.
10.3:1 for a 1.8/1.6
10.0:1 for a 2.0TS


As you say, if you are changing pistons anyway it doesn't matter too much what CR you start with, but if you want a 2.0 engine it is a lot easier to start with a 2.0, although the advantage of a free 1.8 engine also come into play.

Even if you don't use all of it, the free 1.8 engine & box would come in handy.
Whoops I got that wrong what I wanted to say is that you could porbably fit my 1.4 pistons into the 1.8 engine as they have the same bore. Which would help. But if the forged pistons are on the cards neglect what I have said lol.
 

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I don’t use the switching; I have it in the short position all the time. I don’t have a 2,0 engine wiring loom and brand from a dealer is soooo expensive.

I have two types of MSD ignition rpm switches to control the intake, but neither works with TS ignition system to read rpm correctly.
I hear it is possible to operate the manifold's solenoid using the ECU signal to the variator. I don't know any details though.

Another problem is that if the 147 is a Series 2 you cannot use the 2.0 wiring loom because it will not match the 1.6 ABS/EBD control unit plug. You will also have to replace that control unit as well which is very expensive, unless of course you know a very capable electrician that can modify the wiring.

However the middle rev range is not so great, but this might be due to exhaust as well.
That makes sense. The short inlet pipe configuration works best at low and high revs while the long one is for mid revs.
 
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