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...and 70 still missing :(
 

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From what I heard on the radio the idiot's driving the thing weren't looking where they were going :(
 

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From what I heard on the radio the idiot's driving the thing weren't looking where they were going :(
They don't. They look at the radar and the chart plotter and that's it.

I good mate of mine was master on a tanker and he said it's a miracle there isn't an Exxon Valdez every week.

Weird how the hole is on the port side but she went down to starboard.
 

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They don't. They look at the radar and the chart plotter and that's it.

I good mate of mine was master on a tanker and he said it's a miracle there isn't an Exxon Valdez every week.

Weird how the hole is on the port side but she went down to starboard.

Well not wishing to say you're wrong ... but you're wrong ... in addition to radar etc a cruise ship of that size also should have a lookout as well.

They clearly weren't looking at the radar or sat nav either otherwise they would have known that they were way off course and heading for a huge mass.
 

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We were down in Falmouth a couple of weeks back. There was a large P&O ferry (I think it was the Pride or was it Spirit of Britain- 2000 passengers 1000 cars) in the dry docks. Its amazing just how shallow the draught is on these modern boats is - just 6.5m. But the height is 40m from keel to funnel. It looks like it should just topple over. This cruise ship too looks like it is top heavy. (I know nothing of boat design)

dfens: "Weird how the hole is on the port side but she went down to starboard" I presume although the hole is on the port the water must have rushed in and sloshed around until it capsized.


Our thoughts are for all the passengers, crew and their families.
 

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Will be interesting to hear how this could happen these days, too early to speculate at this stage I guess.

I saw info earlier today saying 3 dead, but now 70 missing :(
 

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Also, the hole is on the left side, which means that it hit rock on the left side, causing the left side to go up and right side to go down ...
 

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I presume although the hole is on the port the water must have rushed in and sloshed around until it capsized.


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The only thing I can think is that they frantically re-ballasted the ship to try and mitigate against the hole in the port side, causing it to roll the other way.

Either that or the the ship was wrongly ballasted to start with.
 

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Well not wishing to say you're wrong ... but you're wrong ... in addition to radar etc a cruise ship of that size also should have a lookout as well.

They clearly weren't looking at the radar or sat nav either otherwise they would have known that they were way off course and heading for a huge mass.
Should have had a lookout. OK so it's a few years since I did my Yachtmaster exam, but I'm pretty sure there's something in the IRPC's about that.
Somebody was not exercising the right amount of situational awareness. There is no requirement for ship crews to have local knowledge (hence the need for harbour pilots) and a radar or plotter is only as good as the person using it.

Being off course is only part of it. The ship may have hit an uncharted obstacle.
 

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Should have had a lookout. OK so it's a few years since I did my Yachtmaster exam, but I'm pretty sure there's something in the IRPC's about that.
Somebody was not exercising the right amount of situational awareness. There is no requirement for ship crews to have local knowledge (hence the need for harbour pilots) and a radar or plotter is only as good as the person using it.

Being off course is only part of it. The ship may have hit an uncharted obstacle.
If you look at how close it is to the shore (of a harbour it wasn't supposed to be going to) I think anyone in there right mind would have thought there is a likelyhood to run aground ... that is if anyone was actually thinking at the time ...
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
dfens: "Weird how the hole is on the port side but she went down to starboard" I presume although the hole is on the port the water must have rushed in and sloshed around until it capsized.
Also, the hole is on the left side, which means that it hit rock on the left side, causing the left side to go up and right side to go down ...
The only thing I can think is that they frantically re-ballasted the ship to try and mitigate against the hole in the port side, causing it to roll the other way.

Either that or the the ship was wrongly ballasted to start with.
The angle of list and the final resting point isn't directly related to the position of the hole. Ships are divided transversely for watertightness, not longitudinally. Alfaspecial is right about the water sloshing about; the technical term is free surface effect, which works to reduce the metacentric height of the ship, thus rendering it unstable.

The motion of the free surface is dependent upon the dynamic motion of the ship post water ingress, and is independent of the position of the hole. As the ship takes on more water (which, incidentally, if it were a solid mass, would actually increase the vessel's stability being added so low in the hull) the motion of the centre of gravity of this mass will eventually reduce and determine the list of the vessel as it goes down.

The point about hitting the rock and forcing one side up is correct, but is a bit of a red herring when considering the final angle of equilibrium. Yes, there would be an instantaneous heeling moment induced, but the transient nature of this would be very quickly outweighed by the free surface effect I explained above.

The hole is enormous. It looks like the ship was travelling at speed and ran along the side of some rocks, breaching at least two watertight compartments. If I remember correctly however, that type of ship is designed to a two compartment standard, which means that it should still survive if two compartments are breached. To me, this indicates that there must have been some external forces acting as the ship settled; it's quite shallow water, so if there were further rocks on the seabed as she settled the heeling moment from these may well have offset the buoyancy forces and pushed the ship over even though it may have had enough reserve of buoyancy to survive in deeper waters.
 

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The angle of list and the final resting point isn't directly related to the position of the hole. Ships are divided transversely for watertightness, not longitudinally. Alfaspecial is right about the water sloshing about; the technical term is free surface effect, which works to reduce the metacentric height of the ship, thus rendering it unstable.

The motion of the free surface is dependent upon the dynamic motion of the ship post water ingress, and is independent of the position of the hole. As the ship takes on more water (which, incidentally, if it were a solid mass, would actually increase the vessel's stability being added so low in the hull) the motion of the centre of gravity of this mass will eventually reduce and determine the list of the vessel as it goes down.

The point about hitting the rock and forcing one side up is correct, but is a bit of a red herring when considering the final angle of equilibrium. Yes, there would be an instantaneous heeling moment induced, but the transient nature of this would be very quickly outweighed by the free surface effect I explained above.

The hole is enormous. It looks like the ship was travelling at speed and ran along the side of some rocks, breaching at least two watertight compartments. If I remember correctly however, that type of ship is designed to a two compartment standard, which means that it should still survive if two compartments are breached. To me, this indicates that there must have been some external forces acting as the ship settled; it's quite shallow water, so if there were further rocks on the seabed as she settled the heeling moment from these may well have offset the buoyancy forces and pushed the ship over even though it may have had enough reserve of buoyancy to survive in deeper waters.

and in stalk contrast to your moastest moast thread ... you can be a boring old git sometimes VD :lol:
 

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Cheers, bud :thumbs:
 

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Can't remember where I read it - might have been the BBC - but I read a theory that there was a power cut on board before it was holed. The suggestion being that it drifted to where the damage was done, rather than it being a navigational error.
I'm sure the details will come up over time.
 

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If you look at the pictures, Bazza, it certainly wasn't general power failure. All the lights are still on. As an aside, cruise ships have a distributed generation system, meaning there are several gensets around the ship. If it was lost power, I would think it is more likely to be failure of hydraulic power.
 

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Good point, I did see the picture of it all lit up - only reporting what I read though. Perhaps by 'power cut' they were referring specifically to prop-power?
 

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The angle of list and the final resting point isn't directly related to the position of the hole. Ships are divided transversely for watertightness, not longitudinally. Alfaspecial is right about the water sloshing about; the technical term is free surface effect, which works to reduce the metacentric height of the ship, thus rendering it unstable.

The motion of the free surface is dependent upon the dynamic motion of the ship post water ingress, and is independent of the position of the hole. As the ship takes on more water (which, incidentally, if it were a solid mass, would actually increase the vessel's stability being added so low in the hull) the motion of the centre of gravity of this mass will eventually reduce and determine the list of the vessel as it goes down.

The point about hitting the rock and forcing one side up is correct, but is a bit of a red herring when considering the final angle of equilibrium. Yes, there would be an instantaneous heeling moment induced, but the transient nature of this would be very quickly outweighed by the free surface effect I explained above.

The hole is enormous. It looks like the ship was travelling at speed and ran along the side of some rocks, breaching at least two watertight compartments. If I remember correctly however, that type of ship is designed to a two compartment standard, which means that it should still survive if two compartments are breached. To me, this indicates that there must have been some external forces acting as the ship settled; it's quite shallow water, so if there were further rocks on the seabed as she settled the heeling moment from these may well have offset the buoyancy forces and pushed the ship over even though it may have had enough reserve of buoyancy to survive in deeper waters.
i love it when people know - and share - knowledge like this :thumbs:

thanks, VD! :)
 

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there is footage of her 'buzzing' the island of giglio back in in august 2011 close to where she now rests, with lots of honking going on.
seems some of the crew hailed from there and possibly the captain wanted to show it off a bit.

La nave Concordia vicino al Giglio - Video - Corriere TV

this has echoes of the 'sea diamond' sinking off santorini in 2007 when 2 french passengers were listed as missing.
not aware they were ever located. hopefully most of the current 40 missing on CC will be due to a faulty passenger listing.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
i love it when people know - and share - knowledge like this :thumbs:

thanks, VD! :)
You're welcome, Scud. Ships are one of my 'things'.
 
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