I'm pretty sure the 8v uses a dual mass flywheel?

 

I've not taken it apart and touched it yet, but all research (ePer, ELearn and DTE) would suggest the 8V isn't a DMF.

Anybody replaced a clutch?
merry xmas


hmmm, VALEO lists the same clutch kit part number (821324 Clutch Kit) for all of these, yet prices seem to vary from suppliers.. what am I missing??

ALFA - 145 (930) - 1.9 JTD 02.99-01.01 03.99- 77 105 1910
ALFA - 146 (930) - 1.9 JTD 02.99-01.01 03.99- 77 105 1910
ALFA - 147 (937) - 1.9 JTD (937AXD1A) 04.01- 10.04- 85 115 1910
ALFA - 147 (937) - 1.9 JTDM 16V 10.04- - 85 115 1910
ALFA - 147 (937) - 1.9 JTDM 8V 07.05- - 88 120 1910
ALFA - 147 (937) - 1.9 JTD 16V 09.03-09.04 - 93 126 1910
ALFA - 147 (937) - 1.9 JTD 16V 10.04- - 100 136 1910
ALFA - 147 (937) - 1.9 JTD 16V 11.02- 07.05- 103 140 1910
ALFA - 147 (937) - 1.9 JTDM 16V 07.05- - 110 150 1910
ALFA - 156 (932) - 1.9 JTD (932B2) 09.97-10.00 - 77 105 1910
ALFA - 156 (932) - 1.9 JTD (932A2B__) 10.00-05.01 - 81 110 1910
ALFA - 156 (932) - 1.9 JTD (932A2B, 932A2C) 05.01-09.05 -01.05 85 115 1910

........ and on and on

 

I'm sure it would be possible to change the clutch on a JTD 8V with the right tools a hoist will probably set you back about £150 so maybe easier to hand to a specialist who could probably do it for £300. I imagine you could do it either by dropping the gearbox or taking the whole engine out then splitting the box. If you drop the engine you could do the belts at the same time. As for DMF you'll probably find it's ok.

 

Search has turned up a few V6 stories. However , I'm after some comments on the JTD. I am sure that the box can be seperated from the engine without removing it or the subframe if i hold my mouth the right way and jiggle it, choose my words carefully.

The more I look into this the more confusing it is. Why, if the same clutch is used on most (above) applications are they different prices. And i'm just plain old confused about the DMF now.. pretty sure it's only on the 16V(JTD).

I'm 12,000 miles from an Alfa (JTD) specialist and as such will be ordering in parts from the UK. If i get an Indy to do it, they will need insruction.

 

Does look like it's not a DMF on the 8v going by EPER - guess some of the 8v's use them going by the one on shop4parts website?

I would have thought you would be able to unbolt the gearbox and slide it to the side enough to get the clutch changed without too much trouble.

 

Simple amser if yes , however its not a job for the faint hearted and i would not attempt it without air tools or at least a stirdy breaker bar , i did my 2.4 jtd my selfe

 

Definaltley not the easiest job in the world but I have done one with help.

Have memories of one bolt been a s+d! and the drive shafts.

 

I cant see why a dmf would make the job any harder unless it needed replacing or Perhaps the extra depth is the difference between dropping the gearbox back and loads of extra work because of the lack of clearance.

 

Doesn't make it any harder, I was simply mentioning it... does seem to be a misunderstood item though. From reading (surfing) it appears that the DMF really is a consumable at some stage, if you're going to do a clutch with a DMF - then i'd check it and replace (if req.) at the same time, given the cost of labour involved.

From ELearn
The 1.9jtd 8V has a solid flywheel
The 1.9jtd 16V and the 2.4jtd 10V/20V have DMFs


My problem is looking more like a hydraulic system problem than actual clutch ie. clutch is not releasing properely when pressed, i'm off to bleed it.

** That's what happens when you post drunk/late :tut:

 

meh..
Bled the clutch (at the slave cylinder)
Good travel (16.5mm) as per the specs
No bubbles

Clutch isn't slipping when driving but still unable to select a gear when engine is started, it's not engaging/releasing properly. Sounds like I'm taking it apart.

From what i've learnt the 1.9jtd 8V, 1.9jtd 16V and 2.4jtd 10V clutches are the same Valeo kit PN821324 (Diameter 235mm, Number of Teeth 20, Hub Profile 20x20,2x23,1)

I'm off shopping.:thumbs:

 

If you've done a clutch in a sud then you can do this in your sleep! It's not a quick job and can be fiddly but there is nothing too technical about it. You don't need to remove the subframe, you do need to take off the front exhaust section and driveshafts, and the starter can be awkward but you can do it in a weekend. Out Sat in Sun if the weather's OK. I do them in about 6-8 hours total with hand tools and a trolley jack (usually in the road) but I've had years of experience taking out gearboxes(all makes). The huge variation in clutch prices is due to some companies buying direct and some buying through an intermediary. Eurocar spares are always very competetive and keep good stock.

 

righto.. clutch ordered, should be here in a day or two.
re the process... i'm at work planing

What's the easist way to remove the (drive)half shafts and are they an interference fit in the diff, ie will they slide out (after draining g'box oil)?
Indeed talking to myself here it looks like they're bolted (hex) onto flanges on the diff (aka sud).. so.. why would I pull them out with the flange and drain the box?.. leave em in I say!!
And does this mean I only need to remove the suspension/strut from the LH side.. to make room for the g'box?

Can i just remove the whole hub/wishbones/strut with half shaft intact .. or is this madness and as it will spring apart (would save breaking ball joints no?)
Do I really need to remove the front exhaust?
Will the engine self support when I take the load of the g'box mount, or do I need to support it?
How many other ancilliaries (if any) do I have to remove to get to the bellhousing bolts?

 

Euro car parts have 'em:

Alfa Romeo 156 ATEClutch kits - Euro Car Parts UK?s No.1 Car Parts Retailer

 

I would say it is not a DIY job, but it has been done, you will surely need airtools and a proper bridge and a helper... my best wishes (been there done that)

 

Only one side is bolted to a flange. the othe side slides in on a spline. The side with the spline is held in a centre bearing by 3 tucked away bolts. If you don't want to split the ball joints undo the 4 bolts holding the hub to the leg. You need a jack to support the engine, more specifically so that you can raise the unit to get the flange over the subframe

 

Rtfm

 

what?

 

(Rtfm) .. Read the manual i'm guessing... done that, prefer to talk things out.


New clutch kit has arrived but i'm not convinced that it's the problem (okay, i'm hoping it's not the problem)
So.. the symptoms, from the top (if your all still reading)

1. Engine off, clutch pedal depressed/released - all gears selectable (g'box selector shafts/cables okay) :thumbs:
2. Engine started and idles in neutral - normal diesel noises, no noise from g'box/clutch area (release bearing not worn/chattering) :thumbs:
3. Engine started and idles in neutral with clutch pedal depressed/released - again no undue noises (release bearing ok?) :thumbs:

4. Engine started, in neutral, clutch depressed fully - will not go into gear - clutch dragging/chaffing noise (incorrect travel, leaky hydraulics?)
5. G'box in any gear, engine started - clutch dragging/chaffing/burning HOWEVER when clutch released car will drive as normal no undue noises, no judder.

6. Visual check clutch pedal action - correct, no slop :thumbs:
7. Visual check master cylinder behind pedal - clean, no leaks good fit with and pedal action :thumbs:
8. Removed battery&box, visual inspection of clutch slave cylinder - dry and clean, easily 16-18 mm travel (within specs.) when pedal depressed :thumbs:
9. Visual check hydraulic damper and all lines - clean, no leaks

10. Bled [clutch] hydraulics from slave cylinder (nipple open>clutch pedal in>nipple closed>pedal out>rinse&repeat) - two tiny air bubbles seen but NO change in operation (dragging/chaffing/burning)

So

A. I've either NOT bled the clutch correctly - is there another way??
B. The release bearing is buggered and has reduced the travel - but no noises??
C. Clutch diaphram finger things buggered - but no noises and will drive as nomal??

.. gotta be the hydraulics


ANYBODY?? (A, B or C and supporting arguments on the back of a self addressed envelope)

 

I would reckon it's either a problem with the slave/master cylinder or it's not been bled properly, or the pressure plate has a few bent/snapped fingers on it.

 

If it's a hydraulic problem then the pressure or travel in the pedal should be noticably different. The most likely cause if the pedal feels normal is a broken torsion spring in the centre plate, a piece of which is wedged in the pressure plate assembly. I believe the JTD uses the pull-type clutch similar to V6. Check the arm carefully when the box is out for cracks or worn bushes.

 

okay.. it's definitely the clutch, there's fiberous bits of it coming out the bottom inspection hole.

So, off it all comes.
Got pretty much most of it undone easily, including the 13mm starter motor bolts.. although I've not tried the one above the drive shaft below the starter motor.

Just staring at the steering idler arm now.. must get decent splitter and the drive shafts.. they look scary.
Can i assume the half shafts will just pull out of the diff splines when I remove the four 13mm bolts (each side) holding the whole thing together?

 

The driveshafts should'nt really be scary. On the driver's side you have three 10m bolts holding the centre bearing. These are awkward to get at. Apart from these you need to either split the bottom ball joint or ondo the four bolts holding the hub to the suspension arm.(17 or19mm I can't remember which) you also need to remove the long bolt holding the suspension leg to the track control arm(only because you won't get your angles right otherwise. If you now turn the steering on full left lock you can tap the shaft free. On the passenger side it's best to take the shaft out of the hub. However unless you have a 36m socket with the edge machined down you won't be able to! On this side you can undo the six allen screws in the flange (catch the nuts on the back) and undo the suspension in the same way. If you can't undo the hub nut best take off the calliper and pull the whole hub assembly out with the shaft. Make sure you buy a proper 6mm allen socket to remove those screws. Hope that explains it.