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Discussion Starter #1
Not wanting to hijack the Stig's thread, but needing my own for advice, I've decided to start this topic/thread.

I have never driven in a race (TLGP's don't count, do they?:cheese:) but like any man worth his salt, I beleive I am the best driver in the whole world and I now need to build the car to match my talent. It will have to be a really good car because I have some really good talent! (and will probably need the best car to keep me on the track at all times!:cheese: )

So...

Question 1: What engine will be best for a 116 Alfetta 159i? I'd like something more tunable than the Nord. So would it be a TS or a Busso?

Question 2: Can a person make 330mm brembos fit?

Question 3: Would 15" wheels be a good choice?

Question 4: What suspension would work on it?

Question 5: If I bought a cheap GTV (there are some nasty cheap ones out there!) could I use it's brakes and engine components?

...or would it just make more sense to race the GTV instead...?:D (then I'd join the "modern" trofeo racer discussion ;) )

Any advice welcome!
 

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OK here it comes, im gonna be brutal but honnest, with the emence tallent most of us have, forget about a bigger motor, u are gonna need new pants anyway even if its a 1.3 liter car.
Get your mind to think brakes and suspension, thats where u get quick, unless u are trackman, more power will just make your inerent flaws worse, if u want a car to flatter your talents, get the suspension and brakes sorted , and most importantly ,get it reliable, the most time iu gonna gain is in practicing and getting better at it, not in Horse power!
If u gonna use the 159, which is great, very balanced car, good to learn in, then the grocery list is as follows, bigger torsions(GTV6 ones work fine) cut the rear srings(these cars dont need stiff rears to work) a good set of shox, bilstein is better than Koni, but konis also work fine.
For brakes , get the GTV6 brembo calipers(they just bolt on)and the GTV6 vented disks(powerbrake make sets0 and a good compound pad and some racing fluid and some Ferodo DS 2500 rear pads(only good make we get)
Then get a cage that also helps stiffen the chassis.
Get a bigger rad(the OEM ones dont do it for racing full on)
Then strip the HELL out the car, here is where u gonna get free HP, the lighter the faster, plus its FREE!
 

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I second that.
And when your immense talent outgrows the performance you can start working on the motor.
A good upgrade on the 159I will be to ditch the oe management and replace with Gotech seeing that the 159i already used a crank angle sensor you can eliminate the Distributor completely and fit a coil pack with 4 leads (obviously).
Then you can even switch the cam when you want it to switch. I had mine on a separate switch in the car year’s ago just so that I could override the management and confirm that it worked.
The management change you can do now and get it set up properly you will already see performance improvements.
 

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Ian if oom Corrie agrees with us you have to believe it :) no doubt
 

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Ian, top 10 todo list:

1. Sort out your suspension (Bilsteins on Alfetta is magic and GTV6 torsions)

2. Get a set of proper cams (Had gp1 cams in my Nord and worked great!)

3. Set of 15" semi-slicks @ G&A promotions - +- R3500, will last more than a season.

4. Old BMW 7 series 4pot calipers in front, Ferodo Platinum pads

5. Basic bolt-in roll cage

6. Get a proper heavy duty radiator made up and add electric fan for good measure (+-R1.5k)

7. Get a basic bolt-in roll cage (don't remove interior/seats, then you can also run in Fine Cars at K even if there is no Trofeo race)

8. Put about R3-4k aside for proper racing gear (G&A promotions), +-R400/race meeting for effective entry fee and fuel cost.

9. Race license +- R400/year(?) and club membership around R800 (?) not sure about exact amount, but in that ballpark.

10. Fit race seat (+- R1k) and 4/5point harness (+-R900)

Then come and chat to me and I'll show you a few of the lines and then, my friend, you are ready to have the most fun you can have with your clothes on! :thumbs:

Should be able to do anything from +-1:42's to about 1:38's with that setup...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
what size are the Gtv6 discs? Will they provide good braking for racing? And what radiator will fit or do i need to have one made up??
 
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Ian , reread frosts thread for spending hard earned cash well. Use gtv6 calipers up front , not BMW. A bolt in cage normally get chucked out so check out cage designs and weld one in. (i did bolt in also trying to run in other series but never worked) Primary function of cage is to maintain shape in crash but might as well pick up all suspension points same time. Toss the archaic 159 injection ( pulses every 360 deg)and put in go tech .
Follow frosts advice .
 

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do the bmw brakes just bolt on or are mods required?
If you take the center peace out of the caliper they bolt around the standard Alfa discs. Or you can buy ventilated disc from Powerbrake and it is then a bolt on for the standard 4 pot caliper(the better option).

They come of the late '80s 535 and 735s and there are two types, one has external tubes taking the fluid to the other side and the other internal. They used the same pads. Powerbrake can supply race pads for these.
 

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Ian , reread frosts thread for spending hard earned cash well. Use gtv6 calipers up front , not BMW. A bolt in cage normally get chucked out so check out cage designs and weld one in. (i did bolt in also trying to run in other series but never worked) Primary function of cage is to maintain shape in crash but might as well pick up all suspension points same time. Toss the archaic 159 injection ( pulses every 360 deg)and put in go tech .
Follow frosts advice .
My only motivation for suggesting the BMW callipers, was that they might be easier/cheaper to get hold of. Not sure about that though.

Not sure about Northern rules, but for running Fine Cars/Trofeo (Trofeo is run within the fine car series) handicap series at Killarney a bolt-in cage is perfectly fine. In fact it would be hard to put in a proper roll cage without stripping out the interior and taking out the back seats, disqualifying the car from running in the the Fine Car series. Fine cars are road legal cars, running on semi's. Body/interior must be std. Engine mods are free as long as they are "period" mods eg. fit larger Weber carbs and cams on Nord motor, even turbo (as some Alfettas came out with them), but not modern TS motor, etc. Suspension/brakes mostly free.

The interest in the Alfa Trofeo series in CT is not nearly high enough to warrant a stand alone at present and the most trofeo cars ever on the Fine Car grid was I think 6 or 7 on the Alfa bday racing day (15 cars were rumoured to compete that day, but some broke down and some did not step up)! To get on average say 15 cars on the grid, takes a much larger pool of candidate starters. With some recent promotion from the CARC this will most likely pick up, but the safer option would be to build your car for Fine cars & Trofeo so you have somewhere to go if Trofeo gets little or no races... THe 159 is not fast or modded enough (and too decent) to race in Clubmans, and too "new" to race in Historics. An early Alfetta (pre 77) or Giulia actually gives you the most options, as you can race that in Trofeo/Fine Cars or Classics or both on the same day! :thumbs:
 

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And there you have it.
I would suggest that you keep it low budget for now and change your 159i into a capable track day car and progress from there.
First on my list would be.
Swap the management to gotech that will give you a nice improvement for normal driving and on the track.
Remove all the sound proving you can put the carpet back afterwards if you want.
Lower the suspension upfront and cut the rear coils.
If you do not want the AC remove it as well. Under the bonnet and dash.
Slicks.
Up to this point it is actually cheap.
Torsion bars will be next on my list stiffer front antiroll bar if you can get one you can even double up the antiroll bars if you have to just reinforce the chassis where they mount or it will tear out.
Brakes the BMW units will be easier to get than the GTV6 units but they weigh a tone and for that reason are not ideal.
I can maybe hook you up with a set of GTV6 calipers in a while if you are interested.
Shocks expensive but probably one of the best improvements.
A weld in cage will unfortunately compromise the interior but the main advantage of a weld in care apart from the obvious safety factor is structural strength. A body flexes a lot more than you would think under track conditions.

Keep the motor as is for now and as soon as your experience and suspension setup warrants it you can upgrade the motor.
 
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