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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Owners of older 164s better start checking those springs. Finally swapped out all the old struts, pretty sure all original so just under 90,000 miles over 18 years. Suggest anyone unsure about their car's suspension history take a look. I knew the fronts were pretty dire as she was pulling to the left, but was not prepared for the state of the rears, the shock absorbers themselves had no rebound pressure at all, springs in a terrible state and the bump stops non-existent. I considered the car pretty "chuckable" then, so cannot wait to see how she handles now. Only advisory on the old MOTs was a "misting of oil to rear strut" and "light :wow:corrosion to the front spring pan":tut:
 

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Yeah, good advice methinks!

Does anyone know if you can replace the fancy-pants shockers on a 24v QV with 'ordinary' ones? Mine are probably shot, and replacements are insanely expensive. Are the fitments unique or will any 3 litre 164 shocks go straight on? Or can mine be re-furbed somehow?
 
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If they are the electric ones you should be able to replace them with standards as Lancia had the same on the Thema's as I sold a lad a set for over 4000 euro :eek:
 

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they were pretty bad :eek: should feel like a different car with the new ones on :thumbs:

i seem to remember reading posts on here where others had replaced the electronic shocks with the standard ones
 

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Blimey!:wow:

And that lot only got you an "advisory"?!

I'd change your MOT station next year! The spring's pushed through the bottom pan and half way down the damper on one of them!!!

I'm sure you'll notice quite a difference.

If it helps, I found that the rear springs off a 1996 24 valve were a striaght swap for my 1990 12 valve rear springs and a huge improvement. My car was bottoming out at the back all over the place before I did it.

Also, if you haven't already done so, it's well worth changing the big yellow plastic swivel bearings under the bottom from spring seats while the springs are off. They're pretty cheap and easy to fit. It makes a big difference to the steering feel.
 

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I have to admit I am quite confused by mine, not entirely sure what to do. Because it has the electric suspension, the bounce test doesn't seem to work - it barely moves, even when a fat bloke like me jumps into it the thing doesn't budge. It passed the MOT fine, but as can be seen from the above that's not always the full story. There is a sort of thud/knocking sound from the nearside rear when I go over bumps, and I don't like that one bit.

I don't know how to work out whether it is the springs that are at fault, or the shocks, or both. You can buy a full set of lowering springs off t'Bay for a hundred quid or so, which would obviously be a lot cheaper than replacing the shocks but it'd be wasted money if that's not the issue.

Does anyone know any proper methods to diagnose what could be wrong with them?
 

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I'm not sure, but I think the "failed" position for those dampes is the "sport" mode. So, if the power is removed, they ought to feel pretty hard, and then they soften up when they receive electrical power. If that's the case, it might well feel very hard when you bounce on it. That said, the 164 is fairly stiff even as standard. I need to jump on the towball with my (ahem!) 16 stone to get my standard Lusso to move appreciably!

I think the only way would be to fit the different springs and see, to be honest. Getting the rear struts of a 164 can be a real pain too - especially the very long bolts that go through the rear hub!

If you're prepared to accept the compromise, I guess you could throw away the electrical dampers and just fit a set of "sport" dampers. The ride would be hard all the time though.

The "bounce" test is a pretty useless test of damper efficiency anyway. It's how they work on a series of bumps when they've got a bit of heat into them that counts!
 

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And Alfaomegatron, I also don't know how that old suspension of yours got through any MOT, that's seriously dangerous in my opinion, but the new suspension should perform well
 

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Electrical suspension? Please explain, I didn't know any cars came with such things!
Sorry, I'm getting confused too! The original poster doesn't have them. They were fitted to the "Cloverleaf" versions of the 164 to give it a "sport" and a "normal" mode. In the "sport" mode, they switched to a considerably stiffer set of valving characteristics. I'm not familiar with the 164 setup but on other cars that have a similar feature, it's a solenoid valve in the damper which blocks off some of the holes that the oil passes through in the valves inside it. This makes them a lot stiffer. I think there is further "cleverness" in that although it is controlled by a switch on the dashboard, it is over-ridden by other parameters (like speed, steering wheel angle, maybe even cornering force) so that if you try to "go mad" without engaging "sport" mode, it just engages it for you anyway! If the power fails, I've a feeling they go to "sport" mode because it's safer just very uncomfortable!
 

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Does anyone know if you can replace the fancy-pants shockers on a 24v QV with 'ordinary' ones? Mine are probably shot, and replacements are insanely expensive. Are the fitments unique or will any 3 litre 164 shocks go straight on? Or can mine be re-furbed somehow?
You can, but it will raise your suspension. As far as I can work out, the lowering of the QV comes through shorter shocks, rather than different springs. On my Super, I have QV shocks on the front and normal super shocks on the back which gives it a bit of a 'jacked up' look at the back.
 

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I think there is further "cleverness" in that although it is controlled by a switch on the dashboard, it is over-ridden by other parameters (like speed, steering wheel angle, maybe even cornering force) so that if you try to "go mad" without engaging "sport" mode, it just engages it for you anyway! If the power fails, I've a feeling they go to "sport" mode because it's safer just very uncomfortable!
Yes, there are sensors on the steering wheel, in the gearbox, an accelerometer, all sorts of things - I think there are 7 in total if I remember rightly. Lots to go wrong! They do default to sport mode, and on the roads around here it is deeply uncomfortable! Mine says it is in Auto mode but I can't feel any difference when I switch so I'm guessing it is lying to me.
 
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