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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

following on from this thread:

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/382593-solid-flywheel-conversion.html

where, following fitting a cg motorsports kevlar unit but not (on instruction from the mechanic - duncan at alfanet) changed the flywheel at it was within tolerance, i've now got a judder on engaging the clutch in 1st and 2nd. I've done over 500 miles so it should be worn in by now. It was juddering on uptake before changing the plate, albeit more pronounced, but NOT when engaging 2nd. Because of this "new" judder i was wondering whether anybody who has had the kevlar unit fitted AND a new flywheel could tell me whether they too experience some juddering? ie. could it be the kevlar friction surface

The feel of it is as if, upon engaging the clutch slowly but when the car's under load (ie. uphill a bit), the plate is going slip-grip-slip-grip-slip-grip. I can feel this through the pedal and it causes vibration in the cabin. It's not a massive amount, but the more load the car is under the worse it gets so with a car full of people it's a bit embarrassing.

I'm fairly certain it's just the flywheel which needs replacing, but i wanted some confirmation it's not just the kevlar friction surface first before taking it back to him.

ps. please give me as many "i told you so's" as you want :)

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
just been out in it now, on my own, and it was "ok". When there's little load you can just feel it through the pedal. It's not super bad or anything in general, i was just hoping for super smooth. It seems to get worse when the cars been going for a good hr or so.

When i spoke to Duncan pre-installation he said that "a little bit of judder in these is normal" and athough that doesn't seem right to me he sees loads of them so he should know.

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Duncans just put a new clutch/slave cylinder and secondhand gearbox in mine, I asked about the juddering I had in first and second, that was three weeks ago, almost gone now, hope that helps.

Nick
 

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Hello Diddums100,

Very interested to read your post; could you clarify which c&g clutch you have, exactly? Just fitted a new dual face c&g clutch and have had very similar issues ( although to be fair, not long passed the 500 mile running in period they specify ), except mine juddered in first and reverse. This gradually reducing... But by god, it grips! I didn't change the DMF, as it seemed fine ( and was replaced with the last clutch). I think that the juddering may well be a symptom of running in, as the face of the clutch gradually matches up to that of the flywheel. At least.... I HOPE that's what it is! As I have to remove the gearbox again soon, ( synchro issue), I will hopefully have more information.

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hello Diddums100,

Very interested to read your post; could you clarify which c&g clutch you have, exactly? Just fitted a new dual face c&g clutch and have had very similar issues ( although to be fair, not long passed the 500 mile running in period they specify ), except mine juddered in first and reverse. This gradually reducing... But by god, it grips! I didn't change the DMF, as it seemed fine ( and was replaced with the last clutch). I think that the juddering may well be a symptom of running in, as the face of the clutch gradually matches up to that of the flywheel. At least.... I HOPE that's what it is! As I have to remove the gearbox again soon, ( synchro issue), I will hopefully have more information.

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:
mine is not the dual surface one, it's the "fast road clutch", basically model just below your one. I'm actually kind of glad you say this as well because mine does it slightly in reverse too, which it didn't do before, so i'm starting to lean towards it being a "running in" thing as it is slowly improving.

I think what threw me first off is that it was great for 100 miles... then got worse and probably peaked about 400 miles, I'm at about 600 miles now and it's not as bad. I guess time will tell. I do about 300 miles a week at least so I'll know for sure by next Monday. I'll keep you updated.

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Hello Diddums100,

Thanks for the reply, will look forward to your next post; let's hope a few more miles are the answer...just thought, presumably the bedding in will only occur when engaging gears, so if the 500 ish miles driven to run in are motorway runs, then it might well take longer...maybe.

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hello Diddums100,

Thanks for the reply, will look forward to your next post; let's hope a few more miles are the answer...just thought, presumably the bedding in will only occur when engaging gears, so if the 500 ish miles driven to run in are motorway runs, then it might well take longer...maybe.

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:
aye, i'd assume the same. to complete the 500~ miles,from bristol, i did a run to london and a run to port talbot, plus my run to work is mostly motorway as well, so mine's probably extended somewhat

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I also heard from C&G to ensure that the dual friction is fitted the right way round, namely and to quote their technician "The organic (full face side) should be facing the flywheel with the paddle facing the clutch cover"

Maybe worth considering ?

Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I also heard from C&G to ensure that the dual friction is fitted the right way round, namely and to quote their technician "The organic (full face side) should be facing the flywheel with the paddle facing the clutch cover"

Maybe worth considering ?

Cheers
that "feels" like the wrong way around to me, but then what do i know? :)

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Hello Paulo/diddums,

Thanks for the heads up; we double checked the plate orientation before buttoning up the box with c&g, easy to assume the paddle face is the flywheel side....but is indeed incorrect. Will be interesting to see condition when the box comes back out soon.

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:
 

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Hello [email protected] (Diddums100),

Sorry to interrupt your dogging(!) and sorry to hear symptoms worse today; just a thought - might these vibrations be due to the clutch damper failing? ( the small cylinder underneath the battery) I do recall some posts where these were removed from the system, but not sure if this was successful solution. If this part fails, does anyone know what the symptoms would be?

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:

PS Does one meet a better class of 'Dogger' in an Alfa Romeo?!?!:cheese:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The benefit of dogging in an alfa is that they largely have leather interiors, meaning they're easy wipe.

I think you're talking about the clutch slave cylinder. I have changed this in the last year, but was for a cheap part iirc so I'll look into this. It's fairly cheap to replace, although will try bleeding it first. Will probably have to wait till next month now though. Ta

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Hello Diddums100,

Might not be fitted to your car ( but I strongly suspect it is), but found under the battery tray, on the near side chassis leg. If you follow the clutch slave supply backwards, it goes to the clutch damper before making its way off to the clutch master cylinder/ pedal. About 2 inches diameter by half inch... But you won't see it until the tray comes out, unfortunately.

Can anyone confirm if Diddums100 's 156 1.9 would have a clutch damper?

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:

PS easy wipe?! :cheese: Of course, to quote Richard Hammond " in Italian, Alfa Romeo translates to: yes, I will, but only because of your special car"
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hello Diddums100,

Might not be fitted to your car ( but I strongly suspect it is), but found under the battery tray, on the near side chassis leg. If you follow the clutch slave supply backwards, it goes to the clutch damper before making its way off to the clutch master cylinder/ pedal. About 2 inches diameter by half inch... But you won't see it until the tray comes out, unfortunately.

Can anyone confirm if Diddums100 's 156 1.9 would have a clutch damper?

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:

PS easy wipe?! :cheese: Of course, to quote Richard Hammond " in Italian, Alfa Romeo translates to: yes, I will, but only because of your special car"
ahhhh i see, any ideas what sort of cost a new one is?

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Hello [email protected],

Not certain, I'm afraid, but think it might be £30/£50 ish ( did get alfashop to quote, but was ages ago...memory...not what it was...I'm sure Dan will be along...once he's finished his coffee!

Cheerio
The Captain:thumbs:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Just an update here. Did the fluid change today, it was surprisingly dirty considering it wasn't done that long ago. I wonder whether it had ever been done before I did it a while back and its picked up some residual filth. Is that likely?

Anyway, it seems much better now, very smooth. Hopefully they'll be it :)

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