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Hi All,

This forum has been so helpful to me I thought I would contribute by filling you guys in with my latest alfa experience. I have a 2013 GQV (100k on the clock) which I recently acquired and it's amazing to say the least. Well until last week i.e.

Let's start a week ago... so my G overheated, I immediately pulled over to let her cool down did a quick assessment and thought I could get it about 200m down the street to a safe spot. Started her up all all seemed ok but shortly after take off she started drifting over temp again. Repeated the same process but this time when I went to start her, she started running rough and immediately the check engine lamp came up. I had her towed home and ran diagnostic which came up with P0011 and P0014 i.e Lamba sensor heater error and positioning diagnosis of camshaft error respectively, cleared the fault but still ran rough, this time fault P1671 came up which is fuel pressure check on common rail error.

Long story short got it pulled apart and found this...
931968

Never seen anything like this before.Turns out the timing belt had been replaced in 2017 (60k) but not the water pump! Root cause -The water pump had failed causing the overheating. On my second start the pump probably jammed and upset the timing on the inlet cam. The timing belt was also scuffed in the same position all round. I was really lucky that the timing belt didnt let go or to warp my head and totally wreck the engine... really really lucky!

Timing Belt, idlers, tensioner and waterpump changed today and glad to say all is well again, Well until the next time. My humble opinion is that service centre's shouldnt make it optional to change water pumps at timing service. Maybe my incident was an anomaly and these are generally reliable or maybe the version with the metal impeller has a lower failure rate? not sure. All I know is this was a nasty failure which could have costed alot in repairs.

I don't mean to tell you guys something you probably already know but please if anyone is considering not changing their water pump at their next timing service, please reconsider. For the marginal extra cost it could save you some hassle later.
 

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I thought it was a given as the labour time and cost to do one in the future involves pretty much the same as a cambelt change and for the cost is a no brainer, glad you got away relatively lucky.
 

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Not a sign of a caring owner as the incremental cost of the pump isn’t that great while the belt is being done. Either that or bad advice from the mechanic.
 

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Plastic impeller?
They have a habit of doing that when the get older. The heat/cold cycles make the plastic brittle.

At least it didn't seize and make the cambelt come off or snap like it can on some of the diesels.
 

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Places I know always advise changing the water pump as well as the belt(s) and tensioners but some customers elect not to have the pump done. That's their decision, I wouldn't chance it .




Plastic impeller? They have a habit of doing that when the get older. The heat/cold cycles make the plastic brittle. At least it didn't seize and make the cambelt come off or snap like it can on some of the diesels.
Hi All, This forum has been so helpful to me I thought I would contribute by filling you guys in with my latest alfa experience. I have a 2013 GQV (100k on the clock) which I recently acquired and it's amazing to say the least. Well until last week i.e. Let's start a week ago... so my G overheated, I immediately pulled over to let her cool down did a quick assessment and thought I could get it about 200m down the street to a safe spot. Started her up all all seemed ok but shortly after take off she started drifting over temp again. Repeated the same process but this time when I went to start her, she started running rough and immediately the check engine lamp came up. I had her towed home and ran diagnostic which came up with P0011 and P0014 i.e Lamba sensor heater error and positioning diagnosis of camshaft error respectively, cleared the fault but still ran rough, this time fault P1671 came up which is fuel pressure check on common rail error. Long story short got it pulled apart and found this... View attachment 931968 Never seen anything like this before.Turns out the timing belt had been replaced in 2017 (60k) but not the water pump! Root cause -The water pump had failed causing the overheating. On my second start the pump probably jammed and upset the timing on the inlet cam. The timing belt was also scuffed in the same position all round. I was really lucky that the timing belt didnt let go or to warp my head and totally wreck the engine... really really lucky! Timing Belt, idlers, tensioner and waterpump changed today and glad to say all is well again, Well until the next time. My humble opinion is that service centre's shouldnt make it optional to change water pumps at timing service. Maybe my incident was an anomaly and these are generally reliable or maybe the version with the metal impeller has a lower failure rate? not sure. All I know is this was a nasty failure which could have costed alot in repairs. I don't mean to tell you guys something you probably already know but please if anyone is considering not changing their water pump at their next timing service, please reconsider. For the marginal extra cost it could save you some hassle later.
 

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Places I know always advise changing the water pump as well as the belt(s) and tensioners but some customers elect not to have the pump done. That's their decision, I wouldn't chance it .
I had someone buy a second hand 156 V6 timing belt tensioner off me once, sometimes I think some people must be living on a different planet to the rest of us.
 

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I had someone buy a second hand 156 V6 timing belt tensioner off me once, sometimes I think some people must be living on a different planet to the rest of us.
It is amazing what people will buy.

I sold a secondhand and warped cam cover from a Fiat coupe a few years back.
Also looking at waterpumps for my Bimmer on ebay there are loads of used ones for sale.
 

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I asked the seller to replace the cambelt before I bought my Giulietta as it was overdue. I didn't think to insist on the water pump as well - assumed a decent garage would due it anyway, but as it's not stipulated in the maintenance schedule they didn't. Drove around for a couple of thousand miles, but decided the risk was too much so opted for a fresh water pump and cambelt change again. The pump that came out had slight play so better safe than sorry.
 

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Alfa main dealer forgot to change the water pump when I had the belts done even though we had previously agreed a price for both. "We don't normally change them" was the reply when I pointed out the pump was missing on the invoice. So they had to do the job again. The only consolation was the loan of an Abarth 595...
 

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Offtopic on the topic....
is there a better pump to buy? without the plastic impeller that is.
 

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Its the bearings in the pump which are usually the problem, not normally the impellors. This one failed because it was left in too long. They need changing with every cambelt, every 4 years or 40k miles would be my recommendation. They fail in the exact same way as 1.9 16v JTDs have been failing for the last 15 years.
 

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OK
Let me rephrase then: is there a pump with better bearings?

Or is it that the price difference would be so high, that it isn't warranted since the cambelt needs to be changed anyway.

Is there a nice tuning set with nice pulleys & cambelt??
 

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Not that I know of, sorry. I just use the genuine Alfa cambelt kit / waterpump sets, and change a bit more frequently than Alfa suggest and it seems to pretty much eliminate most if not all of the risk of failure. If the impellor was metal (and therefore much heavier than the plastic one) then you would probably need it to have better bearings to last the same length of time as the bearings on a pump with a plastic impellor.

Anyway what tends to kill the bearings more so than wear & tear is when the seal fails, which lets coolant into the greased part of the bearings and over time dissolves the grease.
 

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Ahh, OK.
Thanks for patiently explaining.:)

I will have 50K km when I change to summer tyres. Will do the 60K service then.
 

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Hi All,

This forum has been so helpful to me I thought I would contribute by filling you guys in with my latest alfa experience. I have a 2013 GQV (100k on the clock) which I recently acquired and it's amazing to say the least. Well until last week i.e.

Let's start a week ago... so my G overheated, I immediately pulled over to let her cool down did a quick assessment and thought I could get it about 200m down the street to a safe spot. Started her up all all seemed ok but shortly after take off she started drifting over temp again. Repeated the same process but this time when I went to start her, she started running rough and immediately the check engine lamp came up. I had her towed home and ran diagnostic which came up with P0011 and P0014 i.e Lamba sensor heater error and positioning diagnosis of camshaft error respectively, cleared the fault but still ran rough, this time fault P1671 came up which is fuel pressure check on common rail error.

Long story short got it pulled apart and found this...
View attachment 931968
Never seen anything like this before.Turns out the timing belt had been replaced in 2017 (60k) but not the water pump! Root cause -The water pump had failed causing the overheating. On my second start the pump probably jammed and upset the timing on the inlet cam. The timing belt was also scuffed in the same position all round. I was really lucky that the timing belt didnt let go or to warp my head and totally wreck the engine... really really lucky!

Timing Belt, idlers, tensioner and waterpump changed today and glad to say all is well again, Well until the next time. My humble opinion is that service centre's shouldnt make it optional to change water pumps at timing service. Maybe my incident was an anomaly and these are generally reliable or maybe the version with the metal impeller has a lower failure rate? not sure. All I know is this was a nasty failure which could have costed alot in repairs.

I don't mean to tell you guys something you probably already know but please if anyone is considering not changing their water pump at their next timing service, please reconsider. For the marginal extra cost it could save you some hassle later.
The water pump is more critical than the belts in many cases. I recommend a change on time not just kms. The whole assembly is plastic.............and I'm told they even tried not machining the bearing on one series!!!!. Predictable result.
In my case, Brera1750Tbi changes the belts and water pump on time, 200kms later a slow small leak from the water pump. Its very hard to see in there without pulling stuff off.................

I'm getting the pump replaced, not worth risking the whole engine.
 

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Not that I know of, sorry. I just use the genuine Alfa cambelt kit / waterpump sets, and change a bit more frequently than Alfa suggest and it seems to pretty much eliminate most if not all of the risk of failure. If the impellor was metal (and therefore much heavier than the plastic one) then you would probably need it to have better bearings to last the same length of time as the bearings on a pump with a plastic impellor.

Anyway what tends to kill the bearings more so than wear & tear is when the seal fails, which lets coolant into the greased part of the bearings and over time dissolves the grease.
I am told that the water pump is a pattern part identical to that used in a Vauxhall Vectra, but the Vauxhall one has a metal impeller. I had one such fitted to my 156 2.4 JTD 20V at the last belt change. Cheaper than the Alfa part too.
 
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