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No need I will just go and buy a Peugeot. No need to stick an Alfa Romeo badge on it.
Even with Peugeot underpinnings, don't you think the Alfa would still have a bit more appeal to those who like cars? I'd sooner buy a Peugeot than a lot of 'white goods' type car brands (Hyundai for example), but the Alfa brand is a notch above to me even when they don't launch any new products for years, somehow. Stellantis positioning Alfa alongside Lancia and DS, above all the other brands (Pug, Citroen, Fiat, Vauxhall) seems to reinforce this, though I think Alfa and to a lesser point Lancia still walk all over DS in the genuine desirability stakes.
 

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To be considered premium, an element of exclusivity is required; you could argue that - whether through circumstance or intent - Alfa has aced that.

:)
Absolutely. When you look at their sales versus what they were supposedly aiming for a few years ago, they look like a basket case, but would they have lost a bit of their cachet if they had sold in those numbers?

They clearly need to sell more than they do now, but as part of a much bigger group i hope they can keep their sales volumes slightly reduced versus the big players to avoid watering down the wow factor.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I still think the Giulietta had the best hvac controls around. The designer who created It from the 147 bits moved to Ford but it would be nice if the parts continued to be found like they are by Jeep and the 500L. It’s in the spirit of the brand stated with the Giorgio cars but it’s more expensive than tablet stuff.
 

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I still think the Giulietta had the best hvac controls around. The designer who created It from the 147 bits moved to Ford but it would be nice if the parts continued to be found like they are by Jeep and the 500L. It’s in the spirit of the brand stated with the Giorgio cars but it’s more expensive than tablet stuff.
Agreed, you can see the evolution from the 147 items - they're super intuitive and feel very easy to use on the move with defined clicks as you change the temperature or fan speed - no taking eyes off the road needed. It's probably why extremely similar items found their way into multiple other cars including 500L, 500X, Renegade (until the facelift, when they made way for rather more complex looking items) and the Tipo.

It's claimed the touchscreen set-up is what customers want - that may be the case for sat nav & phone functions, but I'm yet to find anyone who wants the HVAC on a screen. The reception the new sliders and haptic feedback panels the Golf 8 uses is far from warm. Such risk of allienating so many Golf buyers must only have been deemed worth it based on cost as I can see no other reason VW would've taken such a chance with the play-it-safe Golf.
 

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Absolutely. When you look at their sales versus what they were supposedly aiming for a few years ago, they look like a basket case, but would they have lost a bit of their cachet if they had sold in those numbers?

They clearly need to sell more than they do now, but as part of a much bigger group i hope they can keep their sales volumes slightly reduced versus the big players to avoid watering down the wow factor.
agree. There’s a sweet spot between being exclusive enough to be premium and selling enough to be profitable.

I suspect the German three are at one end of this spectrum, and Alfa at the other; on that measure, none of them have aced it.
 
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Discussion Starter #26
With over the air software upgrades the Golf etc can be upgraded and BMW have already said they intend to incorporate features on all cars and sell access to them in a subscription sales model.
 

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With over the air software upgrades the Golf etc can be upgraded and BMW have already said they intend to incorporate features on all cars and sell access to them in a subscription sales model.
It’s on my bucket list anyway, but reading that furthers my desire to have a drive in a Capri 2.8i before I pop my clogs.

Meanwhile, when it comes to being invited to experience the thrills of trying an electric Golf while it’s in the midst of an over the air update... I’m good thanks.
 

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Even with Peugeot underpinnings, don't you think the Alfa would still have a bit more appeal to those who like cars? I'd sooner buy a Peugeot than a lot of 'white goods' type car brands (Hyundai for example), but the Alfa brand is a notch above to me even when they don't launch any new products for years, somehow. Stellantis positioning Alfa alongside Lancia and DS, above all the other brands (Pug, Citroen, Fiat, Vauxhall) seems to reinforce this, though I think Alfa and to a lesser point Lancia still walk all over DS in the genuine desirability stakes.
I understand what you are saying but for me the important things are how it drives and is it comfortable enough for long journeys, oh and can I get all the luggage in it. Since it is the underpinnings that will effect the ride and handling rather than the badge and a bit of cosmetic tinkering with the bodywork I would rather pay £28k for the Pug with a Peugeot badge than £34k for one with an AR badge. Clearly this is heresy on here. On the other hand if the tinkering involved improvements to the engine, drivetrain and suspension then that becomes a different kettle of fish entirely and the £34k might be forth coming.
 

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Since it is the underpinnings that will effect the ride and handling rather than the badge and a bit of cosmetic tinkering with the bodywork
With the same "underpinnings" different spring & damper rates make a vast difference to how a car drives. When our DS3 went in for its first service we had a C3 as a courtesy car; the two are effectively three- & five-door versions of the same car. Compared with the DS3, the C3 felt floppy & underdamped - to quote Autocar: "there is a big dynamic difference between the DS3 and C3".
 

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With the same "underpinnings" different spring & damper rates make a vast difference to how a car drives. When our DS3 went in for its first service we had a C3 as a courtesy car; the two are effectively three- & five-door versions of the same car. Compared with the DS3, the C3 felt floppy & underdamped - to quote Autocar: "there is a big dynamic difference between the DS3 and C3".
Sorry I misunderstood your reference to underpinnings. To me the underpinnings are from the floorpan down including springs and dampers transmission and perhaps even the engine. Hence my reference to cosmetic tinkering where I expect the only differences across the group to be body styling both external and internal ie the only bits the average purchaser looks at.
 

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Sorry I misunderstood your reference to underpinnings. To me the underpinnings are from the floorpan down including springs and dampers transmission and perhaps even the engine. Hence my reference to cosmetic tinkering where I expect the only differences across the group to be body styling both external and internal ie the only bits the average purchaser looks at.
What I said was with the same "underpinnings" the character of the cars can be vastly different, the DS3 & C3 being a case in point. Built on the same floorpan, using the same mechanical bits but driving completely differently through nothing more than different spring & damper rates. The same platform was used for the contemporary Peugeot 207 - I've never driven one, but it probably had a different feel to either of the Citroens, indeed I'd expect a basic 1.4 207 to feel different to a 156 THP.

The point I seem to be struggling to make is that if Alfa were to build a Giulietta on the same platform as the 308 there's nothing to say that the two cars would drive similarly - depends how much input the respective companies' engineers would have into chassis & drivetrain calibration.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Another example is the second version of the Ford Ka which was based on the Fiat 500 which was in turn based on the Panda. Each had its own driving characteristics, even if Abarth were rumoured to have learnt from what Ford did to reduce that unique rubbery Fiat feel,
 
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