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Hey,

My 156 2.4 JTD (150) judders when pulling off from standstill in first gear. Once the gear is engaged all is fine all through the gears. The only time it has juddered changing gear is if i change from 1st to 2nd quickly, as if the clutch cant engage quick enough!

I have had this issue since owning the car a few months ago although it's not as bad now it's had new clutch and flywheel, but the issue is still there. My brother has the 2.4JTD (140) with an oldish clutch and it is much smoother pulling off from standstill.

The odd thing is, if i engage reverse and do the same thing, the car pulls away smoothly.

For example, if i am in 1st gear at standstill and lift the clutch to move away (no throttle) the car judders until the clutch is fully engaged. If i do that in reverse, there is no judder at all. :confused:

The engine also vibrates the car a little on idle and i am aware this could be any of the engine mounts but probably not related to the judder.

Could the gearbox/engine mount have anything to do with this??

It also seems like it could be flywheel related, but this was replaced a month ago??

Any ideas??

Thanks,

Dan

P.S
List of items replaced in last month which can be ruled out possibly?

Cambelt
Auxbelt
Tensioners
Waterpump
Crankshaft Lower Pulley
Clutch
Flywheel
Blanked off EGR Valve
 
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Discussion Starter #3
I can sometimes feel a slight vibration in the clutch pedal, if anything its worse when cold, or when really hot and in heavy traffic. I was sat in North London traffic the other day for an hour and the car became very shuddery when pulling away everytime.

If you touch the clutch pedal slightly you can feel it pulsating, its also a LONG biting point, starting low down and not engaging until right at the top it seems.

What confuses me is why it doesn't do it in reverse from standstill.
 

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I can sometimes feel a slight vibration in the clutch pedal, if anything its worse when cold, or when really hot and in heavy traffic. I was sat in North London traffic the other day for an hour and the car became very shuddery when pulling away everytime.

If you touch the clutch pedal slightly you can feel it pulsating, its also a LONG biting point, starting low down and not engaging until right at the top it seems.

What confuses me is why it doesn't do it in reverse from standstill.
i think you have a flywheel clutch issue ..be it a faulty DMF .clutch.or fitter /mechanic:(
 

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I can sometimes feel a slight vibration in the clutch pedal, if anything its worse when cold, or when really hot and in heavy traffic. I was sat in North London traffic the other day for an hour and the car became very shuddery when pulling away everytime.

If you touch the clutch pedal slightly you can feel it pulsating, its also a LONG biting point, starting low down and not engaging until right at the top it seems.

What confuses me is why it doesn't do it in reverse from standstill.
try pulling away in second and tell me difference?
 
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Discussion Starter #6
Just taken the car for a spin. Pulling away in second is exactly the same as first gear. It's easier to pull away if i let the clutch out and then press the throttle. The biting point is half way up the pedal, and doesn't engage fully until right at the top.
When i tried it in reverse again its like the car pulsates but in a smooth way, whereas in 1st and 2nd gear it just shakes the car. If first gear was like reverse i'd be happy with the car as the slight pulsating isn't an issue, its just when the whole car shakes when i move off.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
I took it back to the fitter who said it's probably due to the high mileage of the engine that it vibrates on idle and judders when pulling away. But i thought with a new clutch and flywheel all would be good as when on the move the engine is very smooth.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Not checked driveshafts yet, so i may put that next on my list :)
 

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I took it back to the fitter who said it's probably due to the high mileage of the engine that it vibrates on idle and judders when pulling away. But i thought with a new clutch and flywheel all would be good as when on the move the engine is very smooth.

fitter hasnt a clue by sounds of it ...take it back to him

ps did it do this before clutch change?
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Yeah, the clutch slipped before the change, and it doesn't now so thats ok. It also juddered quite badly, to the point where it was quite hard to pull away, especially if there was a hill involved.

If the car is rolling very slowly and i put the car into first and pull away everything is smooth, so just to clarify it's only when pulling away from standstill, made worse under more load or a steep incline.

The fitters are at an Italian Specialist car garage so they should have a clue?

Would a driveshaft make a delayed knocking noise if they were at fault?
 

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Yeah, the clutch slipped before the change, and it doesn't now so thats ok. It also juddered quite badly, to the point where it was quite hard to pull away, especially if there was a hill involved.

If the car is rolling very slowly and i put the car into first and pull away everything is smooth, so just to clarify it's only when pulling away from standstill, made worse under more load or a steep incline.

The fitters are at an Italian Specialist car garage so they should have a clue?

Would a driveshaft make a delayed knocking noise if they were at fault?
yes they would but you would get vibration at speed

did you see your old DMF after clutch change?
 
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Discussion Starter #14
No i didn't and i wish i had now.

They have done a clutch for me on a Fiat Coupe there and they showed me the old one, really good service.

Suppose i shouldn't assume the same...
 
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Discussion Starter #15
I would have automatically thought like Dave... DMF... But as it seems to have been changed then it would be more likely to be a clutch being not centred correctly.
Or as I think Dave is also suspecting as I am, have they really changed the flywheel/ DMF?????
Ask to see the old one.

Something that would also give the effects you describe would be a "pulsing" fuel pump like the old diesels... But JTD's have all but eliminated that with Common rails.

Just read further up and you mentioned that it "doesn't do it in reverse"... Does sound like DMF
 
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They have checked it and say it is fine though and it's just the mileage of the car. I'm wondering if they have changed the DMF now? I need a second opinion or look over the car i guess before i can assume the work hasn't been carried out properly, otherwise ill just keep getting fobbed off i guess.
 

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They have checked it and say it is fine though and it's just the mileage of the car. I'm wondering if they have changed the DMF now? I need a second opinion or look over the car i guess before i can assume the work hasn't been carried out properly, otherwise ill just keep getting fobbed off i guess.
they are fobbing you off with "its just mileage of car " cwap
 

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Yeah, the clutch slipped before the change, and it doesn't now so thats ok. It also juddered quite badly, to the point where it was quite hard to pull away, especially if there was a hill involved.

If the car is rolling very slowly and i put the car into first and pull away everything is smooth, so just to clarify it's only when pulling away from standstill, made worse under more load or a steep incline.
These problems are typical of a worn friction plate (part of the clutch) or a DMF with excessive play in it, or both. I had this exact issue on my old 156 2.4 which turned out to be a completely worn out friction plate, the DMF was fine. Unfortunately after fixing the car it only lasted a few months before I stacked it into the back of someone, but the juddering was totally gone, it was perfect. As you have had the clutch replaced its likely the flywheel has play. I bet they checked it rotationally but didn't check it for wobble across the face of it.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
Really appreciate all your help so far by the way!!

Can anyone mabye help me a little further with this.
On my invoice, the part number for the DMF is 55212854 at a cost of £320 ex VAT. Is this about right and is it the correct part? Car is the CF3 150bhp version of the 2.4

The whole reason i took the car in is to get rid of the judder which is why i asked them to do the flywheel too.
 
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