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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey guys...

I was just wondering if it is possible to swap my alloy topped engine for the plastic topped engine?

Are the engine mounts the same?
Is the Block the same??

Could do with help asap!

Thanks
 

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Yes, it will all fit.

You could just fit the rocker cover and plastic cover and be done though, less hassle then.
 

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I feel for you Cloverleafer, the amount of posts you've had for things gone wrong with it. I remember your first post saying it was mint with all the important jobs done. Glad I don't have your luck though!

Even if all the older ancilliaries will fit you'll need to change some of the wiring to suit if you change to a CF2 engine as they didn't have a seperate water temp sensor for the ECU.

If the older ancilliaries don't fit the later engine then it's a lot more work, the ally tops had a different injection system (means new ECUs & lots of re-wiring) and no variable inlet manifold. Not sure if they had the fuel fume intake and solenoid on the manifolds either.
 

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I feel for you Cloverleafer, the amount of posts you've had for things gone wrong with it. I remember your first post saying it was mint with all the important jobs done. Glad I don't have your luck though!
Yep I remember that one too, unfortunately it seems they weren't. Or at least not properly.


Even if all the older ancilliaries will fit you'll need to change some of the wiring to suit if you change to a CF2 engine as they didn't have a seperate water temp sensor for the ECU.
Not a problem, remove the blanking plug and fit the sensor from the CF1 head. You may also want to swap the knock and crank sensor too as the wiring is of different lengths.


If the older ancilliaries don't fit the later engine then it's a lot more work, the ally tops had a different injection system (means new ECUs & lots of re-wiring) and no variable inlet manifold. Not sure if they had the fuel fume intake and solenoid on the manifolds either.

No they don't have the FFI or EGR, but the head itself takes care of that by not having the bore through it, the intake manifold can be swaped from your old engine to the new one, this will keep the FFI for you. and do away with the variable inlet fiting nightmare.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Well guys, lets just say the sat nav took me down a narrow county back road road which was flooded.. Il let the pictures do the talking..





At 3am in the morning, its very hard to judge how deep it actually was.. I could see the other side of the road, but the bit infront of me looked only to have a slight bit of water running over the surface.. No where to turn round, so I thought lets do it... Big mistake.. Sucked water straight up into the engine.. Myself and a friend (in pic) had to climb out of the window and push the car out as quickly as we could before the water started to make its way into the car (which was very hard as it was pitch black and the stream was ice cold up to our knees...)

It turns out that it had been raining more than usual these past few days and the stream which was normally not there... Was there.. After speaking to a couple of friends, it turns out that their sat navs had directed them down there too but they were lucky enough to get through as it hadnt been raining..

Once we got the car out I managed to wake one of my mates up who came down in his van and towed me back home..
Took the throttle body off in the morning...water flooded out.. Got the wet/dry vac and sucked it all out..
Then took the plugs out, once the plugs were out water came out of there too... Again, sucked it all out with the vac..Sprayed plenty of WD40 down there, replaced plugs and throttle body.. Turned it over.. "blu blu blu blu blu blu blu blu blu blu blu blu bluuuu bluuuuuuu brrroooooooooom vroom vroooooom" it started!! The exhaust was like a hose pipe, water just shot straight out...Then "clack clack rattle bang" oh ****!, quickly turned the engine off and removed the plugs again to check the cylinders... Only 3 pistons were moving up and down when we turned it, the far left one wasnt moving at all... pushed it down with a screwdriver it just fell straight down... Right... Then we noticed the sump started leaking...Sh*t.... Something serious has snapped..

Well I had just spent all day messing with the car getting all the lil bits and bobs sorted (windscreen wiper motor... Fitted new plastic rocker cover (swapped from alloy one)... Fitted new pollen filter...New centre console etc etc just getting it all looking/running smooth..)...
Got the variator and all the belts done 2 months ago, last week was its MOT along with new gearbox and new clutch, before that it was new bottom arms, springs, track rod ends, alternator, ecu, bumper, grill, heater matrix, fog lights, wiper motor, washer pump the list goes on...

Then this happens...

I have managed to find another engine but its out of an S reg and its a plastic topped engine, where as mine is an alloy topped engine.. Im getting the engine, gearbox and ecu, so I should have pretty much everything I need to get it running again.. I so hope to god that this is the last of the problems I run into, im getting quite frustrated as you can imagine.. But the one thing im sure of is.. I wouldnt have known how to do anything if it wasnt for you guys on here :)
 

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Ah it dieseled and broke a rod then. Whenever forced to ford a stream in one of these it's worth undoing the inlet ducting off the MAF temporarily-it's only 2 jubilee clips to loosen and a quick swivel to point it upwards to the bonnet rather than down to the airbox. I gave up the contract I had with customers mostly living in the middle of nowhere but once had to ford a 5 mile flood with water washing over the headlamps of my Subaru Legacy Turbo estate on a winding narrow 16 mile private road (read track!) in Alt-na-Breac in a blizzard with a couple of hundred foot drop on one side-scariest drive of my life.

From what Smaky says the way to go will definitely be to use the bare CF2 engine and re-fit the CF1 ancilliaries. A used "breaker" engine is always going to be an uncertain prospect unless it's stripped, inspected and rebuilt though. Shame Smaky has so much on his plate or I'd have recommended getting him to build a known good CF1 engine out of both plus whatever new parts, belts & gaskets etc are needed. At least you'd know the lumps good for another 100k or so then. Maybe hes persuadeable on a service exchange basis if you can get the lumps run up to him?

I know you've got the ECU but it seems like too much work if you try to go completely CF2 even if that's possible.

Apart from the differences already mentioned with the variable inlet manifold and fuel fume recirculation systems (solenoid actuators for both, vacuum feed & wiring, canister inside o/s wing + all it's plumbing). Your ECU is under the passenger floor & the CF2 is on the throttle body so you'd also need to swap the under dash and engine bay wiring harness?

Definitely the thermostats are different as is the ISM/TPS & MAF so you'd also need the throttle body and inlet ducting. Plus you'll need the CF2 code boxes from under the steering wheel and to change your blades into the coded CF2 keys unless you also change all the locks.

Sorry if I sound defeatist but there's probably lots more I haven't mentioned that someone with Smaky's experience of these knows about.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Well I know now, still.. Wish I knew before I attempted it.. I have forded a couple of streams of similar depth and alot deaper when I had my Focus TDCI and it always went through no problem..

Plus you'll need the CF2 code boxes from under the steering wheel and to change your blades into the coded CF2 keys unless you also change all the locks.
Im getting everything, ecu, yellow code box, 2 keys inc master, all locks + petrol cap..

Would the CF2 ecu work with the CF1 engine? Thing is, my ecu stopped working.. I had to put my old one back in to get the car started..


Would you say it would be better/easier just to swap the block?

How does smaky fancy building me an engine...
 

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My tuppence worth is I'd be begging Smaky to rebuild the original before lashing out on a load of stuff you might not be able to utilise. I wouldn't fancy trying a complete CF2 upgrade without the donor car there for everything that might be needed and an awful lot of time on my hands.

Though I've wedged a 900 engine in my ZXR750 re-looming a bike is much more accessible. I haven't done a complete engine transplant on a car since the days of rear-wheel drive, carburetors and simpler electronics when our answer to everything was to shoehorn a V8 in.
 

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The problem is that the bottom end on that engine is dead, The head though may have survived, baring a few bent valves, so in fact all you'd need is the bottom half and the old head reconditioning, no need for the ECU and code box, though if you went that way, it's the transponders you need, not the blades. If you want I can do the engines, but as I'm moving late November (to North Wiltshire) that's why time's tight.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If I swap all the ancillaries from the alloy top engine onto the plastic top iv been told this will work too?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yep as said before you really need the CF2 donor car because you need to change so much.
Why would I need the doner car if im swapping the ancilliaries from my car onto the CF2 engine? Surely id just need the engine if all my bits are going onto it...
 

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Sorry I mis-read, I thought you were still pursuing a complete CF2 change as you'd also asked on another forum. What you're now asking is what was initially recommended here and just involves a few blanking plugs/sensor swaps.

Do you know the CF2 engine is all good to go? If it's an unknown engine I'd still be tempted to have it checked over, especially oil and water pumps, cams & tappets, plus fit new belts and tensioners etc.
 

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It's a shame with the timing of your engine failure and Smaky's move. I've got a spare CF2 engine waiting, have access to the whole car and can take anything else required. Hopefully I only need the pistons (but possibly the head) as I'm just converting a 1.8 to a 2.0.

With better luck on the timing he might have been able to kill 2 birds with 1 stone but because of his move mines not happening for at least two and a half months.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Do you know the CF2 engine is all good to go? If it's an unknown engine I'd still be tempted to have it checked over, especially oil and water pumps, cams & tappets, plus fit new belts and tensioners etc.
Iv been told that it rons sweet and it doesnt sound like a diesel.. Thats a start.. But he doesnt know when the belts etc were last changed or when it was last serviced as he has only had the car 3 months..

I was going to fit new belts/tensioners/water pump etc before I put it in the car.. Im in desperate need of getting the car back on the road as I use it everyday (14 mile round trip to work) I cant really rely on getting lifts everywhere so I dont really have the time to totally overhaul the engine (as much as id like to). What checks etc could I do before putting the engine into the car which wouldnt take forever?

The plan is then to overhaul the original engine in my spare time depending how badly damaged it is inside.. (as i know its a known good engine before this happened!!)
 

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Sounds like a plan. As that engine hasn't been sitting unused the tappets should still be full of oil. It would be worth asking Smaky what's best to check without a strip down.

I'd def have a look at the cam lobe profiles while doing the belts and check that the spark plugs are all the same colour, hopefully a light biscuit brown.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Sounds like a plan. As that engine hasn't been sitting unused the tappets should still be full of oil. It would be worth asking Smaky what's best to check without a strip down.

I'd def have a look at the cam lobe profiles while doing the belts and check that the spark plugs are all the same colour, hopefully a light biscuit brown.
I put new plugs in the 2 weeks ago before the mot, would they still be ok after getting water in the engine? They all still look new..

How easy are the cams to swap from engine to engine? (i had a new variator fitted the other month, i would ideally like to swap the cams with the variator, but if its a b*st*rd of a job i wont bother....)

Smaky what would you check on the engine without a full strip down? How easy would it be/how quick would it be to do a strip down and what would I need?
 

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I put new plugs in the 2 weeks ago before the mot, would they still be ok after getting water in the engine? They all still look new..
Plugs are sealed so they'll still be as good as new. Just re-use them on the other engine.

How easy are the cams to swap from engine to engine? (i had a new variator fitted the other month, i would ideally like to swap the cams with the variator, but if its a b*st*rd of a job i wont bother....)
Easy. Cam cover off, cam belt off, all inlet cam caps off (inlet cam has 5 of these), then the long end cap off that goes over both camshafts (cam belt end). You will need some new liquid gasket when refitting this end cap on the donor engine. You also need to make sure you mark each cam cap as it needs to go back on in exactly the same position it came from.
 
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