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2005 Gt 1.9JtD, 2010 Giulietta 170 MultiAir Lusso
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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I replaced the timing belt on my 147 1.6 at the weekend and now have a CPS error with car in limp-home mode. I was careful to avoid the sensor with my counter-torque tool, so is it likely I have damaged the track on the back of the pulley? I was originally planning to buy all of the tools from Totallyalfa, but his shop is still down, so I bought the tools from Shop4parts (cam locks), Alfa Workshop (dial gauge and adaptor) and Ebay (longer bolts for cam locks, Laser counter-torque tool. I suspect the Laser pulley tool was gripping the pulley in the wrong way and came into contact with the track.

I'm resigned to stripping all off again this weekend to replace the pulley, sensor or both (I imagine that if the track was damaged it may have taken out the sensor?). My question is, what's to stop me doing it again? In the absence of Totallyalfa, is there an alternative tool I should have used rather than the cheap Laser one? Does a forum member have one I could buy or borrow (I'm in South-East Essex but would happily cover postage both ways if not local).

As an aside, any advice on getting the water pump off? I bought a new one but chickened out having undone the three bolts and not seeing an obvious way to remove the old one.

Thanks
 

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There must be a lip on the waterpump put a screwdriver behind it and you can level it out.
cc the limp home mode , try disconnecting your battery for a 30 minutes and start again.
 

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Water pump will/should be sealed in so get a tube of blue Hylomar ... then carefully lever it away from the block as Afco suggests. Carefully though ... I snapped a corner off very easily .. luckily it had started to move so I could get the pump out!
 

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Water pump will/should be sealed in so get a tube of blue Hylomar ... then carefully lever it away from the block as Afco suggests. Carefully though ... I snapped a corner off very easily .. luckily it had started to move so I could get the pump out!
As gazza says, carefully, fully yes:thumbu p::thumbu p:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
There must be a lip on the waterpump put a screwdriver behind it and you can level it out.
cc the limp home mode , try disconnecting your battery for a 30 minutes and start again.
Thanks Afco - I've disconnected the battery and if that clears it, I'll be going from limp-home to dance-home mode! I'm not optimistic though - I did hook it up to Multiecuscan and that advised a CPS error (I didn't note the code). I'll let you know in about 20 minutes...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
As gazza says, carefully, fully yes:thumbu p::thumbu p:
Don't I need to spin the water pump to get it off? The lower right fixing is behind a hub which the bolt passes through and threads into the pump housing. the other two fixings are conventional with bolt passing through housing into cylinder block.

Thanks to you both for your help.
 

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Ok - until you fix the cam sensor the car will remain in limp mode and restricted to 3k revs.
The waterpump is held in by the two 6mm allen bolts. The 3rd bolt is to hold the plastic cam guide. That should be held on by the 5mm alllen bolt into the lug on the waterpump and nother 5mm allen bolt on the front of the engine more easily seen after removing the rocker cover.
http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/images/25-9-800.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok - until you fix the cam sensor the car will remain in limp mode and restricted to 3k revs.
The waterpump is held in by the two 6mm allen bolts. The 3rd bolt is to hold the plastic cam guide. That should be held on by the 5mm alllen bolt into the lug on the waterpump and nother 5mm allen bolt on the front of the engine more easily seen after removing the rocker cover.
http://www.alfaworkshop.co.uk/images/25-9-800.jpg
Thanks Davffc,

So that's the grey item under the exhaust cam pulley in the picture? Looks like both pulleys will need to come off to change the water pump (I think one's coming off and going in the bin anyway).

Ecu reset didn't clear the fault. I remembered something though - when I was tightening the nut the last time there was a sudden 'jolt'. Could this have been caused by the pulley tool being engaged against the track and a bit of the track giving way? If the track is cast or plastic, presumably a bit would have broken off in this case. I'll only know when I get the pulley off the car. If this is what has happened and there is no visible damage to the sensor itself, do I dare reassemble everything with the original sensor, or should I just bite the bullet and replace it while the belt and pulley are off?

As much as anything, I'm nervous of doing it again with the Laser locking tool, so if anyone can help with an original tool or one from totallyalfa, they would help a lot.

Incidentally, I found this on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322014281...1&exe=12792&ext=32581&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext

It's a Fiat part and has a different number to that quoted on eLearn. Eper doesn't list one as the same as the other, but one or two internet sites do. Even if it's right, listing doesn't suggest I'd receive it before the weekend and I do want to get the car fixed then. I have ordered a used pulley and can get the sensor from Euro Car Parts.
 

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Yes the black plastic cover and the allen bolt looks grey in that picture. The other thing you may have done is break the key way off the exhaust cam pulley I suppose (your comment re a jolt).
Take of both pulleys to give yourself full access to the waterpump. You will see two notches in the pump, as said you can get a flat bladed screwdriver in to assist with leveringthe pump out but do be careful.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I forgot I took this picture - does there appear to be some clean silver metal showing on the back of the pulley, just by the sensor?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Struggling with image upload from camera app - picture is here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ww8a6uiv3n9j2ok/2016-03-20 08.54.41.jpg?dl=0
Replacement pulley arrived today. Looking at the track on the back, the Laser tool would definitely have been pressing on it, but I don't see how any other tool wouldn't do the same. Any suggestions as to how not to do any harm?

BTW, my earlier photo can be disregarded - as evidenced by the loosened bolt on the inlet pulley, I took it before tightening the nut.
 

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I'm guessing thats a generic tool. It's hard to tell from the photo but I'm sure the "prongs" on the alfa tool aren't as long.
You really only need the tool located on the "spokes" of the pulley so shouldn't make contact with the rear ring. Brutal solution - cut down the prongs if need be.
 

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I misunderstood something, ofcourse in this case disconnecting the battery will not help in anyway
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I can't see that any tool that could hold the pulley wouldn't rest on the track - there's only about a 2mm wide edge to the pulley, then the track steps in slightly. Actually, I saw today that I had misread the torque setting and was trying to tighten the nut to 140NM; it got very hard to hold the pulley steady with the Laser tool with this much force against it, so maybe that's the root of my problem. I'll know better when I get the pulley off at the weekend.

In the course of some further research, I've given myself something else to worry about today. I read an article that suggested that if one refits the cam caps that one removes to fit the cam locks reversed, the cam can seize. I'm pretty sure I put them back as they came off, but would have been more careful if I'd read this article before! To put my mind at rest, the caps have a flat end and a dished end - which end of each faces in towards the spark plugs?
 

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What do the others look like? I've not long sorted my head gasket but long enough ago for me to forget that detail. Pretty sure they are all the same way though.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
What do the others look like? I've not long sorted my head gasket but long enough ago for me to forget that detail. Pretty sure they are all the same way though.
They don't all face the same way. It seems that the dished end is there to clear the head bolts where the caps run up to them and isn't relevant for most of the caps. On those away from the bolts, some face one way and some face another. I may be worrying too much about this - I'm pretty sure they went back on the same way as they came off and it was only one among several articles on fitting the belts that mentioned this. That article included variator replacement, so all caps would have been off the inlet cam.

Something I am a little concerned with on the caps is that someone had previously stripped the thread in one place (inlet cam, bolt nearest the bulkhead). He had fitted longer bolts to both sides of the cap. The bolt does thread in, but you can't torque it up to the required setting. I put some Loctite on it and tightened it as far as I could. The other bolt is fine. I think I should get the socket Helicoiled, but don't trust myself with this. Car is due for MOT next Thursday so I'll probably ask my regular mechanic to do it then - I believe thread size required is M8 x 1.25?
 

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The cam bolts are M7 ... a strange size and not easy to find with helicoil kits although they do do them.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Wel, I was right about how I did it but, other than being extra careful and not over-torqueing the nut, not sure it wouldn't happen again.

If anyone has OEM or totallyalfa tool, any chance of letting me know how long the prongs are?

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Okay - all done now; replacement pulley and sensor fitted as well as water pump, ecu reset and all good to go.

In case anyone else has to replace the CPS, the cable presents a bigger challenge than removing and refitting the sensor itself (putting aside the fact that the belt and pulleys have to come off first). when you have the sensor itself off the engine you need to undo two hex bolts holding the power steering reservoir on and move it out of the way. This will give you access to the bolts holding the plastic belt guide and a plate below the reservoir which carries a cable clip on the sensor cable. There is another clip under the inlet manifold, but I couldn't get to it, so snipped the old sensor off the lead and pulled the cable back through. Actually feeding the cable through is easy enough.

I'll write another post offering the benefit of my timing belt experience to anyone fancying a try.

Car was MOTd today (passed with no problems) and I asked my mechanic about helicoiling the cap socket. He reckons it should be okay if it's threaded home, even if it isn't tightened to correct torque. I'll pop the engine cover off again in a week or so and see whether it's loosened at all and, if so, get it helicoiled.

Thanks again to all who helped me out here.
 
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