[msgtv]

Someone wants to buy my spare TS engine, it's only done 10k since it's cambelt change but that was 3 years ago, what is the accepted time interval for cambelt changes, it's 6 years on my 944 but something is nagging away in the back of my mind saying that it's only 3 years on a TS?

 

[JAO]

I'm sure it's three years on the TS - recommended interval anyway.

As an aside are you sure the 944 is 6 years? I've just bought an S2 cabby which had a new belt 4 years ago and was thinking it might need changing soon, it would be a shame as it's only done 5k since changing.

 

[Rainski1]

it's 36k or 3yrs

 

[Zoo]

Porsche 944 S2 48,000 miles or 4 years. replace the cam chain tensioner when you do the belts, I did not... and subsequently my cam chain failed destroying the engine like an alfa engine dies. take heed

currently looking for 944 number 5

 

[alexGS]

Interesting that three of you have Porsches as well

3yrs seems shorter than for any other car - I think it's not the belt that's the issue (it has semi-rounded teeth and is thicker/stronger than older designs - has anyone seen one tear on a TS?) but the small plastic idler made in Germany that is likely to fail first (seize and melt). Or the plastic tensioner pulley if still fitted (teeth wear away, apparently).

Torn cambelts I have seen on FIAT engines were the older trapezoid-tooth type and over ten years old (in one case 18 years old).

In NZ it's the 24V V6 that has had all the cambelt problems and the TS has proved reliable. I know of several that are over 120,000km and ten years old without a belt change. But I suppose Alfa Romeo have halved the change interval in the UK for a reason (and I think it's those bearings).

Oh well, mine was changed this year in my Spider and last year in my 156, and I'll be expecting five years, but will replace if that idler bearing gets noisy. If I was buying an engine that had only done 10k since idler/tensioner replaced, I would expect the bearings to last several years longer - wouldn't you?

-Alex

 

[Zoo]

Interesting that three of you have Porsches as well

I wouldn't be without one, I love them too! even fewer about on the roads but mine was no garage queen. by far the best RWD car i have owned - you should get one

 

[msgtv]

Cheers, (and dont forget guys the S2 has a cam chain, my 944 is an early 2.5 8v with a belt).

 

[msgtv]

Interesting that three of you have Porsches as well

3yrs seems shorter than for any other car - I think it's not the belt that's the issue (it has semi-rounded teeth and is thicker/stronger than older designs - has anyone seen one tear on a TS?) but the small plastic idler made in Germany that is likely to fail first (seize and melt). Or the plastic tensioner pulley if still fitted (teeth wear away, apparently).

Torn cambelts I have seen on FIAT engines were the older trapezoid-tooth type and over ten years old (in one case 18 years old).

In NZ it's the 24V V6 that has had all the cambelt problems and the TS has proved reliable. I know of several that are over 120,000km and ten years old without a belt change. But I suppose Alfa Romeo have halved the change interval in the UK for a reason (and I think it's those bearings).

Oh well, mine was changed this year in my Spider and last year in my 156, and I'll be expecting five years, but will replace if that idler bearing gets noisy. If I was buying an engine that had only done 10k since idler/tensioner replaced, I would expect the bearings to last several years longer - wouldn't you?

-Alex

I agree Alex, I cant imagine a set up thats only done 10k failing just because its 3yrs old, there is a lot of paranoia re cam belts, I will tell the prospective buyer about the 3 year recomendation though and he can make his own mind up. :thumbs:

 

[msgtv]

Kev your PM inbox is full.

 

[JAO]

Porsche 944 S2 48,000 miles or 4 years. replace the cam chain tensioner when you do the belts, I did not... and subsequently my cam chain failed destroying the engine like an alfa engine dies. take heed

currently looking for 944 number 5

I was advised that the chain and tensioner are good for at least 90k miles and are only prone to issues thereafter, my car has only done 62k, what's your experience in that respect?

 

[turbonutters]

My opinion.

Changing a belt is probably 85% cheaper than changing a head with bent valves.

Running motors break idlers, standing motors break belts.

 

[kandlbarrett]

If it's a "spare" engine the parts are far more accessible than when the engine fitted into the car. The question surely is, "why, with the engine out, wouldn't you do it!"

Would anyone really fit the engine then live with the worrying niggle that the belt may let go and then change the belt after fitting it into the car. Surely not!

 

[alexGS]

If it's a "spare" engine the parts are far more accessible than when the engine fitted into the car. The question surely is, "why, with the engine out, wouldn't you do it!"

Would anyone really fit the engine then live with the worrying niggle that the belt may let go and then change the belt after fitting it into the car. Surely not!

Well, I agree. I think I'd change only the belt and keep the bearings, provided they still feel like new.

But just for a different perspective - to change properly you need camlock tools (readily available in England; not available in some countries and a week to post them may be a problem), plus the cost of all the replacement parts (belt, tensioner, idler, balance belt, tensioner) at the equivalent of 350 pounds over here probably exceeds the value of the second hand engine :lol:

Otherwise I agree, good time to change it with the engine out. I did mine in my 156 using camlocks from England and it is nice to know it's done. For my Spider I bought last month, I have a receipt for $1950 (about 900 pounds) to say that it was replaced in February by the main dealer in Wellington, NZ. Worryingly, there are correction-fluid marks on the cover by the pulleys - makes me wonder whether they had the camlocks...! thus why I like to do jobs myself. EDIT: to be fair, they did replace the water pump too for that price: water pump price shown as $488 (240 pounds! I hope it has a gold-plated impeller...)

This is why Alfa Romeo has a reputation for needing expensive parts on this side of the world, and to have the replacement interval cut in half is rubbing salt into the wound for most owners, I'd guess? I think that halved interval is the real problem here...

-Alex

 

[turbonutters]

With proper maid marks why do you need cam locks.
The first TS e bought I had to figure out how it worked without cam locks.
There are actually standard marks on the TS and V6 if you know what to look fore.
The agents do not use the locks unless the head was off.
It is a lot more cost effective to make proper marks.

 

[Mitch916]

With proper maid marks why do you need cam locks.
The first TS e bought I had to figure out how it worked without cam locks.
There are actually standard marks on the TS and V6 if you know what to look fore.
The agents do not use the locks unless the head was off.
It is a lot more cost effective to make proper marks.

Terrible post. Use the cam locks people. Do it properly.

 

[Spider95]

You took the words straight out of my mouth Mitch:lol:

 

[JAO]

Just out of interest at what position do the cam locks hold the valves, by that I mean at what point in the firing order etc?

I've changed one or two cam belts before on other cars just using the markers like turbonutters suggested, but when I read up the procedure for the Alfa I imagined there to be a very good reason for doing it the recommended way, WHY IS THAT?

I'm interested as I've just paid about £500 to have all the belts replaced, new variator and water pump etc, didn't do it myself as I don't have the tools.

 

[NineOneSix]

TBH turbonutters has a point, imagine if you had CB cams or as such, what locks would you be using as I am certain the cams won't come with locks you'll be using a gauge to set them.

But it's recommended to use the locks.

 

[turbonutters]

Just out of interest at what position do the cam locks hold the valves, by that I mean at what point in the firing order etc?

I've changed one or two cam belts before on other cars just using the markers like turbonutters suggested, but when I read up the procedure for the Alfa I imagined there to be a very good reason for doing it the recommended way, WHY IS THAT?

I'm interested as I've just paid about £500 to have all the belts replaced, new variator and water pump etc, didn't do it myself as I don't have the tools.

The only reason is because there are no clear marks for the uninformed.
Also if a layman replace the variator or accidentally loosen one of the cam pulleys he will not be able to realign the cams.

If you are not replacing the variator proper marks maid before you remove the belt are 100% accurate no matter what anybody think.

Another problem is when you work on a modified and degreed motor the owner will be really upset if you set the cams to oe standards after he spend a lot of money and dyno time to get the best setup for his car. You can get better performance from OE cams if you play around or at least tailor it to your liking.
So if the car ran properly or a bit better than standard you could stuff the performance up by returning the cams to oe timing.

When assembling a motor life is a lot easier with the locks especially on a V6 but they are not the be all and end all if you worked on hundreds of them and know the motors in and out.

 

[turbonutters]

In short I always make my own marks before disassembling a motor even if I will be using cam locks.
The thing is when the owner come back and complain of the motor not liking rpm’s or lacking lowdown torque you can move it back to where they were before the locks was used and he will be happy with the car performing the same way it used to be for better or for worse.

My advise even if you use locks still make marks before you remove the old belt especially if you haven’t replaced the belt yourself before since the car could perform better or worse afterwards and then you have a reference.