[BenzinaBrera]

Hi guys, will all the tuners please report to my thread here incase they can give me some info. thanks

and not the software junkies! haha im talking old skool NA tuners, need advise that require the experience of hand on spanner instead of hand on keyboard guys haha

 

[Guili]

I thought you'd be running a 3.8 by now??? Lmao

On a more serious note...did you see my wheels are for sale again? And at a steal!

 

[BenzinaBrera]

hey lance haha i would have made it 3.8 if i could, but the only possible way to make it a 3.8 is by stroking it with the 3.6 bore, and to stroke it you must start fiddling with the twin phaser system, not something im really looking to do haha, sound like a moerse $$$ mission. the other route is to make it 4.0L, yes it is possible but then you need to bore out a lot of the block and the liners and put a nikesil coating in there and make up forged pistons and do serious mods to the squish on the head and have special head gaskets made and possibly need bigger injectors so thats also a no-no.

Dont expect miracle power gains like 300kw all of a sudden hey, i know how you software turbo okes think haha.

what power did rudi say his monstro kicks out last time by the way?

 

[BenzinaBrera]

what i do know is dawie is pulling out all the stops and is busy with a 116 body alfa with this motor in 3.85 form and all the other na tuning bells and whistles. now that will be a car of note! will love to see it in action! joh!

 

[corriedw]

What do you want to do Benzina? Go big bore?

On you motor it is no magic.

There are a Holden 3.8 v6 with a blower and without a blower coming from the factory in Aussie, with the same engine block. We have to check if the Alfa heads bolt on or not. Compare head gaskets and engine stroke. Import a block complete or the pistons, conrods etc and with that you will have the right compression ratio, just fit a turbo or keep it NA depending on which parts you bring in.

 

[Guili]

I would not go big bore, I'd rather go supercharger route, check there in Tuning section some guy with a brera I think put up a Big Brake Kit thread but somewhere in there he says he did the SC conversion, maybe speak to him, either way, you are not looking at something cheap! Or...fit a turbo!

 

[BenzinaBrera]

i have already gone big bore, already have the 3.6 pistons in the block and all. unfortunately the 3.8 holden is not the same engine, that is the ecotec block, mine is the alloytec block.

but yes im bus assembling the motor at this stage and doing some proprietary tuning tricks to smooth it out perfectly. i have all the headgaskets and everything i need already im just working on ways at the moment to give the brera some revving spirit to bring back the 3.2 excitement factor. :thumbs:

 

[BenzinaBrera]

Unfortunately forced induction is not really a option lance, a supercharger conversion from a place of my choice would cost near 100 grand, autodelta refuses to send their kit over here, and also its very expensive.

Turbo is also out because there is almost no space in that engine bay for one, and also because the motor is transverse mounted its will be a near impossible mission to fit the turbo in a efficient place.

I know you are a turbo man and i respect that, hell i go ape on the throttle when im hearing dump noises haha BUT sweet NA motors is something i always loved, and yes i know a little 1750 like yours can even churn out more NM than a big 3.6 but thats missing the point, theres just that something, that build up to something great, that thunder sound building up, the power rising up, the big climb of the revcouter, it cannot be explained really to be honest.

drive something with a perfect NA engine in and you will most likely understand.

unfortunately prime examples of this are BMW's, more to the point the E46 M3 and the new V8 M3. And lets not forget the Busso.

 

[Gertie]

Coming back to your OP. What is it you want to know / get help with? Seems you've got your stuff together and it is a fact of putting all together again? Or you want to tinker a bit with porting / exhaust / intake / raise compression?
Or you want tips on how to ease the "put it back together" task?

 

[BenzinaBrera]

haha no the headwork and all that i got plans and formulations in place. but here is my post in another thread with regards to what i need help for. oh crap i just noticed i didnt post the link! haha feel stupid now.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/engines-ts-jts-jtd-and-v6/358052-v6-jts-lightend-flywheel.html

 

[corriedw]

Benzina it is always the same plan. In your case you do not need to stop at 11:1 compression for 95 octane fuel. You can run 12/12.5 because of the direct injection.(Audi uses 12.3 in some engines and BMW 12.0)

A better set of cams is necessary if you keep standard valve sizes and the std cams are very "calm". I can not have an opinion on porting as I have not worked on these heads before, but the head I looked at, was the same design as the previous Alfas. My guess is std porting will be reasonable for a 3.2 engine, but larger engines may hold back a few horses due to the porting and it may help to get a knowledgeable person flow it.

The crank is very heavy and I will make the flywheel as light as possible, but be careful when you let people lighten the std flywheel, when cut in the wrong places, the cast iron flywheel can break. It is better to make a new steel one.

The std pistons are already heavy and the ones used in big bore kits more so. That together with the heavy crank, is the reason these engines don't rev freely. So when buying new pistons, you have to look at the weight. The lighter the pistons are, the higher you can push piston speed, but we know piston speed is the killer in engines. In my opinion, this is also the reason why Bussos with big bore kits don't last when you rev 7000 rpm. Naturally you need to balance the engine when you change to different weight pistons.

If money is not the object, throttle bodies will be great. I will run a 3.5/4 liter plenum with a Maserati flow meter in the tube supplying the air to the plenum, so that you can use the standard management with a Unichip.

 

[BenzinaBrera]

yes the cams are in the works so no worrys there, the flywheel im just a bit scared of as its a dual mass, what is the cost of making a new steel one? and how much weight do you think is ideal to shave off?

the pistons i got are also lighter so that will definately help a bit.

i would love some throttle bodies and i know tony and rory make a epic set for my car but im too afraid to know the cost haha!

thanks for all the advise.

 

[Gertie]

the flywheel im just a bit scared of as its a dual mass, what is the cost of making a new steel one? and how much weight do you think is ideal to shave off?

I don't think it is easy to shave a dual mass flywheel get a solid flywheel. On the (GTV) Busso's many guys suggest to replace the DM with a solid flywheel. At the end you do not really gain BHP it only revs better - so for TLGP or track it makes sence, but for driving briskly through mountain passes it has little effect.

i would love some throttle bodies and i know tony and rory make a epic set for my car but im too afraid to know the cost haha!

You will still need a plenum to make use of the MAF - otherwise you'll need a different ECU. Modifying the plenum will have a better price / benefit.

 

[Mark Cooper]

In my experience a lighter flywheel = better throttle response.

In other words you can get up through the rev range a little quicker. I used to lighten the flywheel, knife edge the crank counter weights, replace the alunimium crank plugs with grub screws then have the whole assembly, with front pully and pressure plate fitted, dynamicaly balanced. Makes a big difference to driveability.

Oh, this was with the old 105 and 116 series motors.

 

[Gertie]

knife edge the crank counter weights, replace the alunimium crank plugs with grub screws then have the whole assembly, with front pully and pressure plate fitted, dynamicaly balanced. Makes a big difference to driveability.

Knife edging helps: less drag through oil = less losses.
:thumbs: on balancing. Before assembly - Balance all your components to equal weights: get a digital kitchen scale and get all the pistons as close together in weight as possible - sand/file on the inside of piston - same with conrods. Then match up a + weighted piston to a - weighted gudgeon pin and conrod so the combination is close to each other.

 

[BenzinaBrera]

ok many bases to cover all of a sudden haha!

Flywheel: ok if im not having the dual mass then where can someone make me a single mass flywheel then? or even better where can i buy one?

also, isnt the dual mass to dampen the vibrations or can the experienced say otherwise?

And, how much weight should i drop off the fly?

Knife edge: while i initially planned on this, im concerned about the oil distribution in the motor, remember the lobes are also there to pick oil up, and the alloytec motor is known to love oil everywhere or else things start to go wrong like stretched timing chains and bearings running a tad dry, the crank is also very expensivo so i dont want to stuff it up potentially. so unfortunately the knife edge is a no go from my side.

Plenum/throttles: i want to get into this maybe when the car is first running, maybe the performance increase will be enough to satisfy me, maybe not

 

[turbonutters]

Don’t it have oil injectors to oil the pistons and sleeves?

Dump the DMF it is crap.
Save all the weight you can on the bottom end.

 

[BenzinaBrera]

yes it had the oil squirters but that is just for the pistons to cool them down actually.

i want to dump the DMF but nobody told me how or with what to replace it yet?? :lol:

 

[corriedw]

For a sprint on the strip a light flywheel do not work, you can not get off the mark properly. But on track and everywhere else it work. Every time you rev up through gears a flywheel is just a loss.

I can not remember what Hennie paid for the steel flywheel, but it was around half the cost of importing one. If I remember correctly, the steel flywheel was about 4kg lighter than the original on the TS.

A 4 cylinder engine is inherently in balance, so you just keep the components the same. But on a v6 it is not the case. Before the crank is balanced dynanically, weights are added to the journals and then it is balanced. The process is more involved. If you don't do it you may have trouble, I have seen oval main bearing caps on v6s.

 

[BenzinaBrera]

indeed balance will have to be on the cards, im not looking at making a super light one i want the nice average. so is 4kgs the average then or is that too much for a city sleeker?