[pow526]

Hi,
Can anyone give me some pointers on what specific problems to look out for when buying a Spider.

I'm looking to get a low mileage (under 50k) so it will be 2007-09 model.
Not sure to get 2.2 petrol or the 2.4 diesel. It will be a daily drive but generally no more than 100 miles a week local driving but I have never owned a diesel.

 

[Mitch916]

If you look in the 159 Spider Brera tech lounge, there is a good buyers guide in the stickies.

 

[Top Down]

No convertible/Spider should ever have a tractor engine in it. In any case if you were to buy the diesel doing short trips all the time you would curse the day you bought it with all the associated issues the diesel cars have.

Sorry, thats not what you asked! Ensure full AR service history. At 50K the timing chain on the 2.2 may need changing, this should be considered a service item, not a failure. The chain on my Brera was changed at about 50K+ the Spider is at 65K and has not needed one, yet. The diesel will need a cam belt change but I think that comes at later miles. The only issue to plague the Spider is the hood, ensure it opens and closes properly several times without fault, I read on here many DIY attempts to fix hoods finish with frustration. We have had a couple of issues with ours, with the flappy motors, you'll understand what I mean when you see it operate. If you are anywhere near West Sussex, Kevin at Monza Sport understands the hood and keeps our perfect.

If you are looking for a street racer, the Spider is not the car. The 2.2 engine suits it well, sounds nice and makes for a comfortable cruiser and no diesel clatter. Short trips do not suit a diesel engine, but if you do decide that has to be the one, ensure it still has all the environmental kit (DPF etc) on it, it could be expensive replace it once the controls/MOT tighten up.

 

[symon]

If you want a car for back road cruising or for short fun trips get the Petrol, if you want a long distance mile eater get the Diesel.

The Diesel should be faster, but it is heavier, affects the cars handling and will quite likely get DPF or EGR issues at some point if used on short runs.

 

[pow526]

Thanks for all the advice. It sounds like the 2.2 will meet my needs. Will be giving the hood a good work out.
I've promising myself a 2 seater for a few years now, and I have always gone for style over reliability.
Now just need to find it :happy::happy:

 

[symon]

If you can spare a bit more cash the 1750TBi is arguably the best petrol.

Faster, more economical and more reliable than the 2.2

 

[alfatan]

I have owned my 2.4jtdm Since Sept 2015 and its been very very good, stacks of power, handles well, very comfortable and fairly ecconomical. If your budget allows then the 1750tbi may be the best overall choice....personally I am very happy with my choice.

 

[Top Down]

If you can spare a bit more cash the 1750TBi is arguably the best petrol.

Faster, more economical and more reliable than the 2.2

1750 TBI more economic indeed, but more reliable? What is unreliable about the 2.2? (the 2.2 will sound better too)

 

[A_Venables]

1750 TBI more economic indeed, but more reliable? What is unreliable about the 2.2? (the 2.2 will sound better too)

I think as long as it gets regular oil changes, its pretty good. My dad had the 2.2 Astra Convertible years ago (same engine I'm sure - loosely) and it certainly sounded nice around 4-5000rpm.
I have the 3.2, yes it uses silly amounts of petrol, but its worth it for the noise! The guide is very good in the 159 section - check it out.

 

[SpiderSaint]

Fuel consumption on the 2.2 is around 30 mpg on a good run and expect 22/23 mpg in town, doesnt worry me as mine is mostly short trips.
Definitely 100% go for the LE if you can get one.
Have a little look at the front sub frame as these are prone to rust, many of us have had them treated.

 

[TheGrimJeeper]

If you can spare a bit more cash the 1750TBi is arguably the best petrol.

Faster, more economical and more reliable than the 2.2

Impossible to find here.

I don't think they even managed to sell any in France.

 

[symon]

1750 TBI more economic indeed, but more reliable? What is unreliable about the 2.2? (the 2.2 will sound better too)

Camchain, injectors, M32 gearbox.

Not sure about sounding better either, the 2.2 sounds ok but it isn't anything special. An old TS sounds much better IMO

 

[Top Down]

Camchain, injectors, M32 gearbox.

Not sure about sounding better either, the 2.2 sounds ok but it isn't anything special. An old TS sounds much better IMO

Needing a cam chain changed doesnt make the engine unreliable, changing the chain as I have said before should be considered a service item, just like cam belt and water pump on other engines.
The M32 failures are in the main are a problem with the diesels having more torque to deal with, true there have been a few M32 issues with the 2.2 but very few.
Injectors?? What about them?
Sure the 2.2 wont sound as good a TS or for that matter a NORD or Busso, but it does have more character than the 1750, which is devoid of any characterful sound (I understand).
Friend was around at the weekend with his 130K miles 2.2 Brera, still going strong.

 

[symon]

There have been quite a few injector failures on the 2.2 from what I gather.

The camchain shouldn't be a consumable. It is down to the crappy design (inherited from GM) of the oil feed which lubricates the chain. The long service intervals cause the nozzle to block, and the chain stretches, and eventually rattles and snaps. The 2.2's which Vauxhall used were modified with a larger feed to help prevent this issue.

It is also recommended to get the phase variators done at the same time as the chain (according to the 159/Brera buyers guide) so it is going to be an expensive job. Cambelts are far easier to change than chains.


The M32 is just as likely to fail in the 2.2 as the 1.9 (again crappy GM design), the only reason you don't hear about it so often is that there are far less 2.2's around, and the ones that are around generally do less miles.

 

[Top Down]

There have been quite a few injector failures on the 2.2 from what I gather.

The camchain shouldn't be a consumable. It is down to the crappy design (inherited from GM) of the oil feed which lubricates the chain. The long service intervals cause the nozzle to block, and the chain stretches, and eventually rattles and snaps. The 2.2's which Vauxhall used were modified with a larger feed to help prevent this issue.

It is also recommended to get the phase variators done at the same time as the chain (according to the 159/Brera buyers guide) so it is going to be an expensive job. Cambelts are far easier to change than chains.


The M32 is just as likely to fail in the 2.2 as the 1.9 (again crappy GM design), the only reason you don't hear about it so often is that there are far less 2.2's around, and the ones that are around generally do less miles.

Its true the long service intervals are likely to not help with the chain problem. The base of the 2.2 engine is used by GM cars in the U.S. Saab and Alfa Romeo. Regular oil changes evens the odds. I think I read somewhere that later cars and the genuine AR cam chain kit contained larger oil feeds. Sure, ignore a stretched chain, cane the car and a snapped chain becomes a real possibility. It should be seen as a service item, as soon as mine showed signs of stretch all that was needed was a chain, one worn part will wear other in no time. Like, ignore the cam belt schedule and you could finish up with a seized water pump, snapped belt and a head rebuild. service your car properly, look out for warning signs and get it fixed.

The M32 gearbox is I believe a version of the Getrag F35 transmission. It has been used in numerous cars including I believe the 155 and 156, not entirely sure about that. Whilst there have been a few failures in lower powered cars, most have been with the 1.9jtdm. As I understand it the M32 is the designation for a box built for a max torque of 320nm the same as a standard 1.9jtdm, add a remap and you are way over that.

The engine cam chain and gearbox are not the greatest design, there are flaws in many engine/gearbox designs, but look after them properly and it should be as good as any.

Owning 2 x 2.2 JTS engines cars I am always conscious of anything written on this and other forums and I have to say your concern is a little over the top.

 

[TheGrimJeeper]

How many catastrophic 2.2 failures have there been reported on AO
compared to the 2.0TS ?

 

[symon]

How many catastrophic 2.2 failures have there been reported on AO
compared to the 2.0TS ?

That is true, but the TS engine outsold the 2.2JTS engines by a huge factor.

Pretty much every car in the Alfa range had the option of the 16V TS at one point, and it was produced from 1995 until the end of the 147 range. They must have sold over a million of them in total.

The GM based 2.2 JTS was only ever fitted to the 159, Brera and Spider, which have never been that common on the roads, and a large portion of those were diesels.