[Ian Lusso]

I would like to hear about experiences in gaining power in Busso engines, from 3.0 to 3.2 to 3.7, but excluding turbocharging. I have come to see the following types of gains in engines with specific mods done to them:

3.0 V6:
Mapping, exhaust and induction: 7% increase (typically 162kW to 173kW)(218bhp - 233bhp)
GTA camshafts: 6.3% increase (typically 162kW to 172kW) (218bhp - 231bhp)
Wilder "GTA2" camshafts: 12% increase (typically 162kW to 181kW) (218bhp - 243bhp)
GTA2 cams with induction, exhaust and remap: 20% increase (162kW to 194kW) This car had a larger throttle body fitted. (218bhp - 261bhp)

3.2 V6:
Mapping, exhaust and induction: 6% increase (184kW to 195kW)(247bhp - 262bhp) mostly due to decatting. For some reason the 3.2 is not as mappable as the 3.0
GTA cams: 0% (stock cams on all 3.2's)
GTA2 cams: 6.3% increase (184kW to 196kW)(247bhp - 263bhp)
GTA2 cams with induction, exhaust and remap: 12% increase (184kW to 206kW)(247bhp - 277bhp)
GTA2 cams, full decat, larger throttle body, larger carbon plenum, full induction kit (carbon intake pipe, cold air intake and filter), remap: up to 17% increase (184kW to 215kW)(247bhp - 289bhp)

Does anyone have any similar experiences to share? I would like to post a "what works" and "what doesn't work" for those of us who are wondering how to claim additional performance but don't want to experiment. Most if not all 3.2 engines actually push out 184kW (247bhp) in stock form when run on a rolling road. I've verified this with GT's, GTA's and GTV's.

 

[Shimmerydolmeo]

I would like to hear about experiences in gaining power in Busso engines, from 3.0 to 3.2 to 3.7, but excluding turbocharging. I have come to see the following types of gains in engines with specific mods done to them:

3.0 V6:
Mapping, exhaust and induction: 7% increase (typically 162kW to 173kW)
GTA camshafts: 6.3% increase (typically 162kW to 172kW)
Wilder "GTA2" camshafts: 12% increase (typically 162kW to 181kW)
GTA2 cams with induction, exhaust and remap: 20% increase (162kW to 194kW) This car had a larger throttle body fitted.

3.2 V6:
Mapping, exhaust and induction: 6% increase (184kW to 195kW) mostly due to decatting. For some reason the 3.2 is not as mappable as the 3.0
GTA cams: 0% (stock cams on all 3.2's)
GTA2 cams: 6.3% increase (184kW to 196kW)
GTA2 cams with induction, exhaust and remap: 12% increase (184kW to 206kW)
GTA2 cams, full decat, larger throttle body, larger carbon plenum, full induction kit (carbon intake pipe, cold air intake and filter), remap: up to 17% increase (184kW to 215kW)

Does anyone have any similar experiences to share? I would like to post a "what works" and "what doesn't work" for those of us who are wondering how to claim additional performance but don't want to experiment. Most if not all 3.2 engines actually push out 184kW in stock form when run on a rolling road. I've verified this with GT's, GTA's and GTV's.

Please can you quote bhp as well as kW.

 

[Ian Lusso]

Please can you quote bhp as well as kW.

I've edited to include bhp figures.:readit:

 

[goremohekan]

the South Africans always did love the busso the best.

260BHP from the 3.0...tempting next time the belts need changing!

 

[Ian Lusso]

the South Africans always did love the busso the best.

260BHP from the 3.0...tempting next time the belts need changing!

Are you familiar with GTA2 spec cams?

 

[Shimmerydolmeo]

I've edited to include bhp figures.:readit:

Cheers!

 

[Ian Lusso]

Does anyone perhaps know what can be done to the bottom end to improve power output?
Balancing, stroking, etc.

 

[maxiboy wales]

Does anyone perhaps know what can be done to the bottom end to improve power output?
Balancing, stroking, etc.

Nothing as much without huge expense.. Balancing improves reliability but not power.. can go big bore at huge expense.

otherwise the only way to increase power is to fit high comp pistons but again costly for small gains..

A few things can be done to reduce power losses.. but again expensive for tiny gains.. dry sump crankshaft oil scraper electric water pump total seal rings etc all reduce losses

to be honest the the most cost effective way to big horsepower is a super charger.. forced induction.. nitrous..

but not a lot of the bottom end for big gains without big bore to 3.7 or 3.8

 

[pyle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe5h682GW4s There is a thread somewhere about this car. If I remember correctly is has sports cams, exhaust and a remap to suit the modifications. This guy is a wizz with Alfa engines.

 

[Ian Lusso]

Ok wait. Maybe I should rephrase that:

How do I make my engine rev to 8500rpm reliably... Which rods? Until which rpm are the lifters safe? How do I suit cams to this rpm?

 

[pyle]

Ok wait. Maybe I should rephrase that:

How do I make my engine rev to 8500rpm reliably... Which rods? Until which rpm are the lifters safe? How do I suit cams to this rpm?

The same person who has built the car in the video says that original lifters can handle up to 7600rpm. I've seen some do 8000, but for going 8500rpm you would certainly need new pistons and rods, maybe re-balance crankshaft, solid lifters, different valve guides, stiffer springs, race spec camshafts, don't know about the oil pump... a race spec engine in short. Why do you need 8500rpm?

 

[maxiboy wales]

I talk with Jim K on another forum. I agree with above over 7500rpm reliably solid lifters, cams, valve springs, titanium retainers, maybe stronger race spec valves to add reliability. And agree the bottom end might need some work.

lightweight pistons.. steel rods, full balance, some work on oil pump and gallery's though dry sump would be better.

 

[Ian Lusso]

Thanks for that maxiboy. I would not like to go as far as a dry sump system, but would like to otherwise maximize engine output.

How can I get into direct contact with Jim K?

 

[maxiboy wales]

ALFAGTV6.COM ? View topic - Jim K. 3.2 engine he has a thread here and i chat to him by pm though that forum..

he also has a camshaft thread in the Gta lounge here but i get him easier on the other forum

 

[mirlock]

Just for info there is someone on ebay offering crank regrind/balance not sure if thats cheap or not but does all v6 alfas . i came across it so linked incase you needed

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CRANKSHAFT-GRINDING-ALFA-ROMEO-164-166-SPIDER-GTV-SZ-RZ-2-5-3-0-3-2-V6-ALL-YEARS-/162074032875?hash=item25bc5d7aeb:g:ThoAAOSwPYZU22v9

 

[Ian Lusso]

Ok so 8000rpm it will be :smoker:

 

[Shimmerydolmeo]

Any suggestions for additional mods before my remap? Have wizard decat manifolds and wizard cat back. Just had head rebuild so nothing that involves heads off!

 

[goremohekan]

Are you familiar with GTA2 spec cams?

Nope....are they produced in RSA?

 

[fanatic012]

What about skimming heads, plenium/tb upgrades? I've read lot of discussion about it but nobody made some conclusion about it at end.

 

[Ian Lusso]

What about skimming heads, plenium/tb upgrades? I've read lot of discussion about it but nobody made some conclusion about it at end.

Carbon plenum
F430 throttle and airflow meter
Compression is already at 11:1 so no skimming required.
Head has been gaslfowed and ported
Valves have been reshaped and given a swirl polish and 3 angle seats

Nope....are they produced in RSA?

Yes they are available in SA and were developed by Dawie De Villiers and Van Der Linde Developments to be a modular type of cam, easy to run with existing cams found on Busso engines and will work with hydraulic tappets.
Specs:
Duration: 231 degrees at 1mm
Peak Lift: 9.7mm


GTA2 cams are an upgrade where the camshaft duration and lift are given slight improvements, and various "stages" are used, for example GTA2 inlet with stock 3.0 exhaust; GTA2 inlet with GTA inlet cam used on the exhaust, and GTA2 profiles on both inlet as well as exhaust (and almost no brake booster function at idle due to large overlap aranoid: )