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The vacuum is occasionally interspersed with agreement with something the brexiteer thinks reinforces their case in attempt to be amiable. I don’t appreciate this attempt from a bunch of people shooting my foot as well as theirs for “democratic” reasons. If they want to leave, they are most welcome.
 

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I voted for change. I wasn't happy with being in the EU, ......and you were happy (I guess?).
I have no crystal ball to tell you where this will go.... but I think a brighter future lies outside of the EU constraints, and you don't.

That's fine, it doesn't make me a..... <fill in the blanks, or just copy and paste from this thread>

It doesn't make me stupid, or you for that matter.

It doesn't make me right or wrong, you neither.

I can't give you answers to your 'definitive' questions, becauase (typo alert :)) in most circumstances when change occurs, only time will tell the outcome. What we do know is that if change doesn't happen then not much else will, if you're happy with your lot then so be it..... I'm not and I want a better future for my children, nothing wrong with that surely?
So it's not actually change you're after it's more the Las Vegas model of heads you win, tails you lose. Usually when a person or a organisation make a 'change' it is something they can describe, something they have a fair idea of what the majority of the consequences of that change will be. It is something where they usually have a definitive reason for, other than change for change sake and they can describe the benefits to them of making the change.

At no point since the referendum was announced by David (call me Dave) Cameron have Brexiters given a solid reason why we need to leave other than 'sovrinty, blue passports and fish'. I have asked people who voted to leave what they believe will get better in their lives because of it, which law they will most enjoy not having to obey etc. Not one of them has even tried to give me a reasoned, logical answer. Brexit was about a feeling, an emotion and giving everyone else who was relatively happy a good kicking because you're unhappy with your lot.

I don't think you're stupid, I think you're wrong. I think people who voted for Leave have screwed their kids and grandkids futures, I think you've cost this country not only better economic growth and jobs but it's reputation as a steady and reliable partner, we are a laughing stock like it or not. All those BS promises made in 2016 have fallen apart, not one of them will come true but you still believe. The politicians who sold you this crock of **** have been shown as liars and charlatans but I bet you voted for them. There is literally nothing I can say or do that will convince you you've been had is there? That is perhaps the saddest thing of all.

Why is it that people like Rees-Mogg who kept saying the EU was doomed and failed project have moved their businesses to Ireland or other EU countries? Why is it some of the biggest Tory donors and Brexit supporters have applied to buy EU citizenship in Cyprus or Malta? It's OK for them to have all those rights but **** the rest of us! Hypocrites the lot of them!

PS - This 'Australia style deal' that keeps being talked about, it's No-Deal with a new frock on. Johnson will take this country out of the EU on January 1st 2021 with no EU deal in place.
 

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So it's not actually change you're after it's more the Las Vegas model of heads you win, tails you lose. Usually when a person or a organisation make a 'change' it is something they can describe, something they have a fair idea of what the majority of the consequences of that change will be. It is something where they usually have a definitive reason for, other than change for change sake and they can describe the benefits to them of making the change.

At no point since the referendum was announced by David (call me Dave) Cameron have Brexiters given a solid reason why we need to leave other than 'sovrinty, blue passports and fish'. I have asked people who voted to leave what they believe will get better in their lives because of it, which law they will most enjoy not having to obey etc. Not one of them has even tried to give me a reasoned, logical answer. Brexit was about a feeling, an emotion and giving everyone else who was relatively happy a good kicking because you're unhappy with your lot.

I don't think you're stupid, I think you're wrong. I think people who voted for Leave have screwed their kids and grandkids futures, I think you've cost this country not only better economic growth and jobs but it's reputation as a steady and reliable partner, we are a laughing stock like it or not. All those BS promises made in 2016 have fallen apart, not one of them will come true but you still believe. The politicians who sold you this crock of **** have been shown as liars and charlatans but I bet you voted for them. There is literally nothing I can say or do that will convince you you've been had is there? That is perhaps the saddest thing of all.

Why is it that people like Rees-Mogg who kept saying the EU was doomed and failed project have moved their businesses to Ireland or other EU countries? Why is it some of the biggest Tory donors and Brexit supporters have applied to buy EU citizenship in Cyprus or Malta? It's OK for them to have all those rights but **** the rest of us! Hypocrites the lot of them!

PS - This 'Australia style deal' that keeps being talked about, it's No-Deal with a new frock on. Johnson will take this country out of the EU on January 1st 2021 with no EU deal in place.
“I don't think you're stupid, I think you're wrong. I think people who voted for Leave have screwed their kids and grandkids futures, I think you've cost this country not only better economic growth and jobs but it's reputation as a steady and reliable partner, we are a laughing stock like it or not. All those BS promises made in 2016 have fallen apart, not one of them will come true but you still believe. The politicians who sold you this crock of **** have been shown as liars and charlatans but I bet you voted for them. There is literally nothing I can say or do that will convince you you've been had is there? That is perhaps the saddest thing of all.”

We are still in Satire mode - right?

Because everything in the above paragraph indicates, you do think he is an idiot!
 

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Those ballot pencils should not get into the wrong hands. Otherwise we could easily become a laughing stock. The result should have prompted a study on which a proper decision could be made. A choice between “A”and “B”.
Not between “A”and “not A”.
 

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Yes. It’s the Lucky Dip form of “democracy” ADF!
It’s not a Democracy! It’s a franchise! Controlled and Operated by an elite, who place a slant on anything to ensure the weight of any argument is biased towards satisfying their ambition.

Which is dead easy with a mass population that prides itself on knowing nothing and understanding even less!

If this government decided to issue smarties as currency, they would think it a great idea, because they would get more!

An IQ of 200 would be impressive, were it not shared between 17.4 million Brexiteers.
 

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Well johnson now has more power than any prime minister ever. Hes in charge of the government and the treasury, he can do anything his paymasters want.

Were going out on no deal with a bonfire of our rights and protections and all the Mail/express/telegraph readers will be cheering

What an absolute mess
 

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And he just ousted the chancellor; why?
Been asked to do something really stupid with “our” money?
 

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Well johnson now has more power than any prime minister ever. Hes in charge of the government and the treasury, he can do anything his paymasters want.

Were going out on no deal with a bonfire of our rights and protections and all the Mail/express/telegraph readers will be cheering

What an absolute mess
Buffoons! It is all part of the “Grand Ruse”.

Remember how he persuaded Brexiteers if we stayed in th E.U., forty million Turks would becoming here claiming benefits?


Well his scheme has paid off. They are all family members!

Brilliant! Koftas anyone?
 

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And he just ousted the chancellor; why?
Been asked to do something really stupid with “our” money?
What, like using public funds to take his Daughter to Davos?

There is no great loss in seeing him off! Toadies like him climb the ladder all too easily. Fawning in the extreme. Politics is a dirty business and you have to be particularly dirty to get on quickly.

Good riddance! Now sit back and watch the wheels fall off.

 

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Well johnson now has more power than any prime minister ever. Hes in charge of the government and the treasury, he can do anything his paymasters want.

Were going out on no deal with a bonfire of our rights and protections and all the Mail/express/telegraph readers will be cheering

What an absolute mess

There are often claims that Brussels is run by unelected bureaucrats, but it occurred to me today when the chancellor did the honourable thing that this country is no different to the EU. Johnson might well be the mouth piece but does anyone recall seeing a bloke called Cummings on a ballot paper?
 

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Nope! But we do live in a Democracy - don’t we?

What’s the plan for the North? More benefits, paid for by the south. If I remember rightly, historically Northerners that made it big time, couldn’t wait to move Sourh. It’s such a miserable place to be wealthy in.
 

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“I don't think you're stupid, I think you're wrong. I think people who voted for Leave have screwed their kids and grandkids futures, I think you've cost this country not only better economic growth and jobs but it's reputation as a steady and reliable partner, we are a laughing stock like it or not. All those BS promises made in 2016 have fallen apart, not one of them will come true but you still believe. The politicians who sold you this crock of **** have been shown as liars and charlatans but I bet you voted for them. There is literally nothing I can say or do that will convince you you've been had is there? That is perhaps the saddest thing of all.”

We are still in Satire mode - right?

Because everything in the above paragraph indicates, you do think he is an idiot!
I really don't think he's an idiot, I would have to believe the other 17 million were idiots too in that case. I know some of them and I know for sure they are not idiots! Easily led, Yes. A little gullible, certainly. Not critical enough in their thinking, Yes. Taken in by a skillful campaign of lies and manipulation, well duh! Idiots, No. It's a trap to call anyone who voted Leave an idiot, it's too easy.
 

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Any one that is easily led, fails to scrutinise the motives of those that lead them - they are idiots.

And to fail to give a single logical reason as to why they chose to follow, is crass. It is not a game. The consequences are real.
 

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I really don't think he's an idiot, I would have to believe the other 17 million were idiots too in that case. I know some of them and I know for sure they are not idiots! Easily led, Yes. A little gullible, certainly. Not critical enough in their thinking, Yes. Taken in by a skillful campaign of lies and manipulation, well duh! Idiots, No. It's a trap to call anyone who voted Leave an idiot, it's too easy.
Well what you have just written, suggests you do think they are idiots - unless your definition of an idiot is different to mine!
 

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Perhaps 17M people could be easily led. Does this make them idiots or does it show the power of the bogus news that has them so confused? If the danger of this condition of “info” overload is to lead us into trouble there should be grownups to help. Politicians would be a good move if they were not just in it for themselves.
 

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Any one that is easily led, fails to scrutinise the motives of those that lead them - they are idiots.

And to fail to give a single logical reason as to why they chose to follow, is crass. It is not a game. The consequences are real.
Perhaps 17M people could be easily led. Does this make them idiots or does it show the power of the bogus news that has them so confused? If the danger of this condition of “info” overload is to lead us into trouble there should be grownups to help. Politicians would be a good move if they were not just in it for themselves.
They have had since the 26th June 2016 to come up with a single constructive argument for removing us from an institution that has spawned the most prolonged and prosperous period in our History.

Surely that indicates a considerable degree of stupidity, and persistent ignorance of the consequences. Given, every element of Government has changed, more than once, and continues to do so, indicates the leaders of this farce themselves are clueless. Yet the Brexit Diciples remain in a Turpor, like rabbits in the headlights.

The whole scenario suggest sublime idiocy!
 

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Ironically , the idiocy has been bred into the politicians by inheriting a structure from Europe so they wouldn’t know how to be constructive for the country as a whole if they were given the chance. All they can do is destroy and criticise and at the heart of it is self interest, it would appear. The fact that 17M people can’t identify this in the chaos is understandable.
 
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