Sorry, ECJ not EHCR.
Steady on, Mr Dibnah (post #20)- you'll destroy the whole basis of these threads...........at our last general election, through the general hotch-potch that is our electoral system, the Conservatives were elected with an overall majority. Yet I'd estimate that about 90% of the posts in the "politics isn't fun any more" thread are whinging about the activity of the Government.......
Ah, the magic "them" word. "We," i.e. the UK, have as much say in European legislation as any other member state. As for the idea that we sacrifice some power in order to be part of a larger unit, don't we accept that principle by being in the UK, by being in England, by being in Lower Snotting or wherever?I have no problem with trade agreements with Europe, as well as important stuff like intelligence sharing and counter terrorism, but we don't need them making our laws for us.
So we forget the French fighters who died so our troops could get off the beaches at Dunkirk?I want out...during the war we stood alone....we should again.
No sir...You shouldn't forget, nor will I, indeed nor will anyone with a shred of respect for those people in such a dilema. I fear however that you are taking the phase too literally, whereas I was referring to the fact that Holland, Luxembourg, Belgium and France were all occupied and 'we' the british were .....well you know....it was an analogy.So we forget the French fighters who died so our troops could get off the beaches at Dunkirk?
We ignore the French fighters who dies saving our downed aircrews, even when the same crews may well have been bombing the towns those French people lived in?
We ignore the fact that more French people died in both WWI and WWII than British did?
We ignore the way that freedom fighters from every country in occupied Europe risked not only their own, but also their family's lives?
Why not pretend that all those foreign pilots flew, and died, in RAF planes.
And, most important of all, we ignore the simple truth that had the US not been pumping money, food, fuel and weapons into the UK we would have gone the way of the rest of Europe. Dunkirk got our troops out, but the Battle of the Atlantic kept us fighting long enough for the Americans to enter the war. Only at that point were we able to consider the invasion of Europe.
I should declare an interest here. My great uncle was shot down over Germany and some of the French underground railroad volunteers that helped him get to Spain were captured and killed.
We have a say in the legislation, but don't forget all other EU members have a say in the laws, and we are only one of 28 or so with a say.Ah, the magic "them" word. "We," i.e. the UK, have as much say in European legislation as any other member state. As for the idea that we sacrifice some power in order to be part of a larger unit, don't we accept that principle by being in the UK, by being in England, by being in Lower Snotting or wherever?
Or should I resent "them" (Scots and Welsh) for having a say in the UK? Should I resent "them" (other English people) when it chooses a government which my constituency didn't select? Should I resent "them" (other people in Orpington) if my MP is not the one I voted for?
No, I understood exactly where you were coming from. The problem is that the analogy doesn't work.No sir...You shouldn't forget, nor will I, indeed nor will anyone with a shred of respect for those people in such a dilema. I fear however that you are taking the phase too literally, whereas I was referring to the fact that Holland, Luxembourg, Belgium and France were all occupied and 'we' the british were .....well you know....it was an analogy.
Welcome to AO & the Way Off Topic lounge!I want out...during the war we stood alone....we should again. Ok, I accept there's a chance things may get harder, there again we may just set a precedent. The 'money' will want to stay in, for all their ludicrous handouts.
At least we'll be able to decide on who's side we're on in any future wars, which as the EU breaks down becomes increasingly likely. Peace I'm afraid is unnatural and we're all living under a false sense of security.....with over population comes war(s)....checkout the history books.
Have to say I usually find that with most governments there are policies that I agree with and those that I don't agree with -no matter which party is in power. Even with governments that I have not really found much agreement with on a policy front, I can usually see (often begrudgingly I have to admit) that they think that they have the best interests of the country in mind. With this bunch I can't see that at all. I can't see that most tory voters will see any positives from their policies (apart from that of not having a labour government). I strongly believe that their interests lie only with a narrowly defined elite which will have implications for the distribution of wealth in the country for years to come.I'm starting to find all of this a bit scary now. Hameron's Government could go down in history as the one that brought the end of the NHS and took us out of Europe. They could be studying this 5 year stint in 100 years time and asking the question "What the **** where they thinking?".
:yes:I heard a very good analogy on the radio the other day.......Oooh yes. Go on
If one person was alone on a bus they could go whichever direction they wanted to go. If there were 28 people on the bus then you would need to ask all of the others.
Noooooooo! It's not a bus. How about, if the EU was a cheese sandwich, then who would be the bread.....and where would we find the cheese.....hang on.....my crap analogy is more relevant than yours. Taxi!
The EU is a one size fits all institution which doesn't exactly work for anyone, except perhaps Germany.
yawn...what was that? Oh yes. Whatever you do, don't mention the war.
I think also that if we stay in we will end up giving even more powers away, and might even be forced to join the Euro, as the EU fatcats will know that we cannot leave anytime soon.
Which fatcats will we serve in future then? Market force fatcats? Bank fatcats?
If we leave it might be a bit tough at first, but I think we will emerge stronger. The EU isn't going to stop trading with us, as we buy more from them than they buy from us and they would have too much to loose.
You seriously believe that? Really?
I agree, that is very true.mapalfa said:"....is ignoring that we could only stay un-invaded due to the assistance of other countries"
It's a safe bet to say there's inefficency, because all organisations are inefficient, large and small.IMO the trouble with the EU is that management is like all supersized organisations, they become unmanageable & inefficient, (at least by present methods) wasting/"losing" billions