[MarcG]

Keen to switch to a TBi Brera but the ones for sale are mainly white (I've seen the odd silver and one red).

I really don't want white or silver. I want dark grey or black. Do they exist?

I suppose there is the Italia Independent, but that's keeping an even higher price and I'm just not sure about living with matt paint...

 

[David WB]

Yes.

For example:

http://www.alfaaid.co.uk/Car-Sales/Details/24/Brera-1750-Tbi-200-Bhp-Turbo

Hell of an expensive car however.

Keep a close eye on the Veloces website if you are really that determined to blow all that money on a used one.

You can see them get down to ~£11,700 or such. But I have never seen one lower. The 159 is a far cheaper prospect, and you can get the Ti for less than it would cost for a Brera. Some TBi Breras and Spider can still cost £15,000 at some indies! Lovely car, and its good they keep up prices, but... really? Not convinced by any stretch.

 

[MarcG]

Ahh, at last some proof!

The TBi does seem to be very expensive at the moment. There are a few white ones and an Ii available at the moment at prices higher than the last couple I've seen go through Veloces!

Keep suggesting to my indie that he could change my JTS engine to a TBi as I'd like to keep the black prodrive S spec. But he just laughs at me....

(I do understand it would be a very big job).

 

[MarcG]

Yes.
http://www.alfaaid.co.uk/Car-Sales/Details/24/Brera-1750-Tbi-200-Bhp-Turbo

That's got cloth upholstery! Never seen that in a Brera.

What did it sell for. Those wheels don't work well on it either.

 

[David WB]

Ahh, at last some proof!

The TBi does seem to be very expensive at the moment. There are a few white ones and an Ii available at the moment at prices higher than the last couple I've seen go through Veloces!

Keep suggesting to my indie that he could change my JTS engine to a TBi as I'd like to keep the black prodrive S spec. But he just laughs at me....

(I do understand it would be a very big job).

To be honest, I'm not all that convinced it would be that worthwhile for you.

Most of the TBi engined cars get sucked into Veloces, as they seem to hunt for them and whack the premiums up; standard dealer behaviour really, especially with rare cars. That'd why they are a good place to keep an eye on.

I'm not going to lie, while a TBi would be much cheaper to run, but perhaps at the level they sell at, a better car would be to go for a V6 or even a GTA. The V6 will cost more in running, but you could get the cost down to a decent level. There are some really cheap V6 cars out there. Plenty of examples can be had for ~£7000 on an 09 plate without astronomical mileage, and I bet you could haggle a lot more.

The risk:
- V6 Timing chain: £2000+(?)
- TBi Turbo Blown: ~£2000

 

[David WB]

That's got cloth upholstery! Never seen that in a Brera.

What did it sell for. Those wheels don't work well on it either.

Christ knows. I don't even know when it sold. Such cars I think would sell for £11,500k on a cloth interior now, maybe a haggle down to ~£10,500, but I am really out of my depth here.

The TBi engined cars came in a very varied set of configurations. Some had a few Prodrive bits stuck to them, some had gorgeous leather interiors. It's pot luck really. Same with the 159 TBis. Notice how the seperation between a 159 TBi Lusso and a Ti isn't all that different. This is in contrast with the early model 159s.

Put it this way, a 159 in Ti spec, with ~40,000 miles will cost you around £12,000 from Veloces. A similar Brera I reckon will set you back £13,000 easily.

Private sellers tend to be much, much cheaper than the dealers, which isn't generally new news; but the TBi Brera/Spider has some really wild pricing out there. Dealers generally think they are made of gold, private sellers sell more in line with what seems more like sensible + a little premium.

 

[MarcG]

Just annoyed with timing chain issues on the JTS.

The V6 wouldn't be a good idea for the long runs, but I guess the price difference could make up for it.

Really not ready to stop having a Brera yet. Still love the looks and rarity.

Can't even bring myself to 159.

 

[MarcG]

Put it this way, a 159 in Ti spec, with ~40,000 miles will cost you around £12,000 from Veloces. A similar Brera I reckon will set you back £13,000 easily.

The Brera from Veloces would be more like £14k to £15k.

 

[David WB]

Just annoyed with timing chain issues on the JTS.

The V6 wouldn't be a good idea for the long runs, but I guess the price difference could make up for it.

Really not ready to stop having a Brera yet. Still love the looks and rarity.

Can't even bring myself to 159.

The JTS V6 is perfect for long runs in terms of mechanical ability, but the petrol costs will be harmful. To be fair however, the early MK1 TBi engine doesn't exactly have a shiny record, with many owners reporting rather low MPG. Don't rule out the V6 based purely on low number long drives.

And to be honest, I am not entirely sure the normalised probability for turbo failure on an early TBi is much different to that of a timing chain stretch on a V6.

 

[MarcG]

So basically there is no safe Brera to buy!

I should know that by now...

 

[David WB]

The Brera from Veloces would be more like £14k to £15k.

Oh yes. Don't start me on that rant, otherwise I'll get lynched I suspect.

£15,000 for a rare car? Go and buy something that is genuinely better. At that money, there are plenty of bloody good cars to be had now; over having the kudos of owning a rare car which has what is only a 1.8T engine.

135i for starters.

 

[David WB]

So basically there is no safe Brera to buy!

I should know that by now...

There's no such thing as a safe car. :lol:

Even Volkswagen TFSI owners have many many problems.

Be careful too. The tech forums are made for the purposes of people having problems. I think in general the number of failures relative to the number of cars is still quite low. Without the large numbers of Golf GTi and Ford Focus ST owners to sample from, the perceived failure rate may be much higher than it actually is.

 

[Miles G]

The JTS V6 is perfect for long runs in terms of mechanical ability, but the petrol costs will be harmful. To be fair however, the early MK1 TBi engine doesn't exactly have a shiny record, with many owners reporting rather low MPG. Don't rule out the V6 based purely on low number long drives.

And to be honest, I am not entirely sure the normalised probability for turbo failure on an early TBi is much different to that of a timing chain stretch on a V6.

Just out of interest, when you say Mk1 TBI when did that change to Mk2 and what did they change?
I assume 2010 TBI is Mk1 then...?

Cheers

 

[David WB]

Just out of interest, when you say Mk1 TBI when did that change to Mk2 and what did they change?
I assume 2010 TBI is Mk1 then...?

Cheers

One would hate to introduce a nomenclature where none is due.

What I am referring to as the "MK1" is the TBi engines used in the 159, the Brera and the Spider only.

The "MK2" would be that used in the Giulietta. I believe, but am not confident to definitely say that the GQV has different injectors and a larger turbo than the "MK1". The 1750 used in the 4C is a further example, the oil feeder pipe is different (wider?) and looks a lot more grand compared to those on the GQV, though this doesn't constitute a "MK3" I don't think.

I would probably go and find a TBi expert for this subject, because I will probably confuse you and myself.

I believe RomeoRaiderZ's (beware, single point statistics coming right up!) 159 went through 3 turbos. This is possibly because of some amount of fuel released into the oil by leaky injectors. This is where the (possibly unfounded) warning comes from when I am talking about blown turbos.

That said, blown turbos are probably quite rare, as a V6 stretchy chains, its just that victims tend to post in the respective tech lounges. You don't get threads saying "my 1750 turbo is working perfectly today!"*. :lol:

*Well, maybe on the odd occasion.

 

[Miles G]

Leaky injectors are my biggest worry after speaking to Dan at Autolusso and RomeoRaiderz's previous nightmare.
To do:- get my oil checked for contamination.....

Cheers David

 

[MarcG]

Oh yes. Don't start me on that rant, otherwise I'll get lynched I suspect.

£15,000 for a rare car? Go and buy something that is genuinely better. At that money, there are plenty of bloody good cars to be had now; over having the kudos of owning a rare car which has what is only a 1.8T engine.

135i for starters.

I'd spend £15k on a Brera in a heartbeat over £15k on a BMW and live with all the crap that comes with having an Italian car.

 

[Top Down]

Marc, I'll have a virtual pint that you'd be sorry if you parted with your Prodrive Brera in favour of a TBI.

 

[MarcG]

Marc, I'll have a virtual pint that you'd be sorry if you parted with your Prodrive Brera in favour of a TBI.

It's quite possible! But I do intend to do a fair few of the prodrive mods on the 'new' car if I do move.

A part of me thinks a lowered Italia Independent with the grey S wheels (as opposed to the silly black ones it comes with) might be a pretty fine alternative to a S. But I'd need to see the matt paint in real life again. Only saw it once in a showroom a long time ago.

The Ii is an even more silly price though.