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I hope it is allowed to discuss Giulia's competitors in this lounge. Since 3 series is the sole most important rival and by any measuring standards the most similar car to the Giulia (and Jaguar XE... shouldn't forget that one), I guess this comparison should be ok…


BMW will show new 3 series (G20) in the beginning of October in Paris, and will be launched in January 2019.
It will be build on a completely new platform (modular CLAR platform), however it will retain current suspension setup. Macpherson struts at the front and 5-link at the rear. Giulia uses double whishbone at the front and multilink at the back (which has different configuration than the one in 3 series). So this is already an advantage for Giulia.
Current 3 series has front suspension made of aluminium and rear of steel - I think this will remain so in the G20. The M3 has completely reworked all aluminium suspension. Giulia has all-aluminium design front and rear (normal anf QF, but the latter has all-aluminium rear crossmember as well, while in normal Giulia it is made of steel).
New platform for 3 series will have 15% higher torsional rigidity than current 3 series, but will be up to 50% stiffer on specific areas.

According to the first test drives, the steering will not match Giulia's in term of directness and responsiveness, and damping might not be as good as Giulia's. However BMW put a lot of effort into damping setup and damper type - which I believe will be the hardest thing for 3 series to match the Alfa. They will also offer 2 types of standard damping configuration - comfort and sport, then there will be active suspension, and also M suspension which will lower the car by additional 10mm. Next, there will we variable-ratio steering (which in new A4/A5 wasn't liked in reviews), and very interestingly electronically controlled locking diff (current 3 series does not even have an option for limited slip diff, except M3).

So lets see how will it compete with Alfa.
I certainly hope that engineering department at Alfa isn't once again at sleep and that they are well prepared for the new 3 series launch. They need to urgently add some additional equipment and further improve Giulia's driving dynamics, because if they won't, sales and recognition will suffer even more.
Audi already made a small face-lift of A4, which came on the market around the same time as Giulia, but Alfa once again did not really do much last 2 years. They have to add much-needed updates to tech equipment, as they are already around 5 years behind all major rivals in that department - they need to get their asses moving ASAP!

Clearly bmwblog forgot which car has best driving dynamics and steering in premium segment, but some useful info here: https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/08/15/first-drive-bmw-g20-3-series-prototypes/

And another first drive: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/bmw/3-series-g20/
 

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I hope it is allowed to discuss Giulia's competitors in this lounge. Since 3 series is the sole most important rival and by any measuring standards the most similar car to the Giulia (and Jaguar XE... shouldn't forget that one), I guess this comparison should be ok…


BMW will show new 3 series (G20) in the beginning of October in Paris, and will be launched in January 2019.
It will be build on a completely new platform (modular CLAR platform), however it will retain current suspension setup. Macpherson struts at the front and 5-link at the rear. Giulia uses double whishbone at the front and multilink at the back (which has different configuration than the one in 3 series). So this is already an advantage for Giulia.
Current 3 series has front suspension made of aluminium and rear of steel - I think this will remain so in the G20. The M3 has completely reworked all aluminium suspension. Giulia has all-aluminium design front and rear (normal anf QF, but the latter has all-aluminium rear crossmember as well, while in normal Giulia it is made of steel).
New platform for 3 series will have 15% higher torsional rigidity than current 3 series, but will be up to 50% stiffer on specific areas.

According to the first test drives, the steering will not match Giulia's in term of directness and responsiveness, and damping might not be as good as Giulia's. However BMW put a lot of effort into damping setup and damper type - which I believe will be the hardest thing for 3 series to match the Alfa. They will also offer 2 types of standard damping configuration - comfort and sport, then there will be active suspension, and also M suspension which will lower the car by additional 10mm. Next, there will we variable-ratio steering (which in new A4/A5 wasn't liked in reviews), and very interestingly electronically controlled locking diff (current 3 series does not even have an option for limited slip diff, except M3).

So lets see how will it compete with Alfa.
I certainly hope that engineering department at Alfa isn't once again at sleep and that they are well prepared for the new 3 series launch. They need to urgently add some additional equipment and further improve Giulia's driving dynamics, because if they won't, sales and recognition will suffer even more.
Audi already made a small face-lift of A4, which came on the market around the same time as Giulia, but Alfa once again did not really do much last 2 years. They have to add much-needed updates to tech equipment, as they are already around 5 years behind all major rivals in that department - they need to get their asses moving ASAP!

Clearly bmwblog forgot which car has best driving dynamics and steering in premium segment, but some useful info here: https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/08/15/first-drive-bmw-g20-3-series-prototypes/

And another first drive: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/bmw/3-series-g20/
still looks crap though
 

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Once a sales reps car, always a sales reps car.
 

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I agree that Alfa need to have not only plans for a refresh with some additional updates to interior tech but also implement them in a timely manner. But somehow going by the pace at which they operate I don't think they will. In terms of the engines and mechanicals we have a good setup and don't see any need to tinker or update apart from what's already happening due to emissions regulations, except maybe the rumoured 350hp hybrid turbo engine.

BMW are trying to get back on top of the driving dynamics bar set unexpectedly by Alfa which is fair enough and understandable. Don't think IMHO we need to turn this into BMW bashing. After all if what we have heard are to be believed Alfa themselves learnt a thing or two by disecting 3 series in order to make the Giulia set the bar higher. If I am totally honest to myself I can see some elements of a 3 series in the Giulias external design. Nature of the game and am glad for it if Alfa continue this quest and make the Giulia and its successors even better.
 

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My guess would be 95% of BMW drivers do not care or even understand anything about driving dynamics. Their main concerns are badge / colour / wheels / Tech and a affordable monthly PCP payment. The German car manufacturers worked this out years ago and have successfully sold the same product with built in visual obsolescence to keep there punters coming back to buy the same rehashed product over and over.
 

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I've just ordered an 340i Touring - the current style F31 - the G21 Touring is more than a year away. It's mainly for the wife and I'll probably use it for boring long motorway journeys , holidays, tip runs, etc. Should keep some boring miles off my QV. By all accounts the F30/F31 handle like boats, but I think it will do a job for me. I get it in November so I will report back. I suspect the G20 will be good, BMW won't like being outdone by Alfa, especially with the M3. I agree with you Lizard in terms of the Giulia needing an update. They don't need to do much, new UI on the infotainment and maybe add a HUD option, virtual cockpit and WiFi and I think they will be fine. I think the exterior still looks new and fresh, doesn't need updating yet. Maybe some LED headlights. If they then put some squidgy plastics in the lower areas of the interior, sort that horrible sharp-edged gear knob out and no one would have anything to moan about. Oh, and make sure they give the press cars that don't break down.
 

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I've just ordered an 340i Touring - the current style F31 - the G21 Touring is more than a year away. It's mainly for the wife and I'll probably use it for boring long motorway journeys , holidays, tip runs, etc. Should keep some boring miles off my QV. By all accounts the F30/F31 handle like boats, but I think it will do a job for me. I get it in November so I will report back. I suspect the G20 will be good, BMW won't like being outdone by Alfa, especially with the M3. I agree with you Lizard in terms of the Giulia needing an update. They don't need to do much, new UI on the infotainment and maybe add a HUD option, virtual cockpit and WiFi and I think they will be fine. I think the exterior still looks new and fresh, doesn't need updating yet. Maybe some LED headlights. If they then put some squidgy plastics in the lower areas of the interior, sort that horrible sharp-edged gear knob out and no one would have anything to moan about. Oh, and make sure they give the press cars that don't break down.
One thing that has intrigued me in recent times is this move away from a two car family having a "family car" and then a smaller additional one. For example my family has a Giulia (mine) and a Skoda Fabia (wife's), even though my wife has a commute and I don't. It seems everyone wants a big car these days, and quite often it seems that the wife has the biggest one (a SUV) even when they aren't the one doing the high miles/commuting.
 

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I've just ordered an 340i Touring - the current style F31 - the G21 Touring is more than a year away. It's mainly for the wife and I'll probably use it for boring long motorway journeys , holidays, tip runs, etc. Should keep some boring miles off my QV. By all accounts the F30/F31 handle like boats, but I think it will do a job for me. I get it in November so I will report back. I suspect the G20 will be good, BMW won't like being outdone by Alfa, especially with the M3. I agree with you Lizard in terms of the Giulia needing an update. They don't need to do much, new UI on the infotainment and maybe add a HUD option, virtual cockpit and WiFi and I think they will be fine. I think the exterior still looks new and fresh, doesn't need updating yet. Maybe some LED headlights. If they then put some squidgy plastics in the lower areas of the interior, sort that horrible sharp-edged gear knob out and no one would have anything to moan about. Oh, and make sure they give the press cars that don't break down.
You’ll be surprised how good the 340 is. Especially the engine, although if my memory is correct you’re familiar with this?
 

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On a related topic, if Alfa don't refresh the Giulia next year, those early adopters whose cars reach 3 years in late 2019/early 2020 are unlikely to want to stump up for a new and little improved Giulia and Alfa will lose sales to those of us who should be their easiest sell.

Personally, I think my early 2017 quad looks better than the 2018 quads because it is significantly lower. I can live without Apple Car Play, so what would I really be getting if I traded in for a new one?

I have never kept a car longer than 3 years, but I'm already thinking this one might be staying with me a bit longer. Not good for Alfa's sales numbers.
 

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You’ll be surprised how good the 340 is. Especially the engine, although if my memory is correct you’re familiar with this?
I had an e36 M3 Evo back in the day, so I appreciate a BMW straight six but I haven't had one of the modern turbocharged ones so don't know quite what to expect.

On a related topic, if Alfa don't refresh the Giulia next year, those early adopters whose cars reach 3 years in late 2019/early 2020 are unlikely to want to stump up for a new and little improved Giulia and Alfa will lose sales to those of us who should be their easiest sell.

Personally, I think my early 2017 quad looks better than the 2018 quads because it is significantly lower. I can live without Apple Car Play, so what would I really be getting if I traded in for a new one?

I have never kept a car longer than 3 years, but I'm already thinking this one might be staying with me a bit longer. Not good for Alfa's sales numbers.
Me too. The car is a driver's car, and all the things that journalists mark the car down on don't matter one jot to me. Having said that, my car has recently developed two new rattles, if that trend continues it will drive me mad.
 

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I've just ordered an 340i Touring
A 3-series touring was my choice too, I 'needed' a resonably quick estate car. I was on my way to the BMW dealer when I saw a Giulia, I wondered if they did an estate and went home to look at the website. Within a week I ordered a Giulia Veloce - having compromised on just one point.

No regrets, I use the wife's Discovery Sport when I 'need' an estate.
 

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A 3-series touring was my choice too, I 'needed' a resonably quick estate car. I was on my way to the BMW dealer when I saw a Giulia, I wondered if they did an estate and went home to look at the website. Within a week I ordered a Giulia Veloce - having compromised on just one point.

No regrets, I use the wife's Discovery Sport when I 'need' an estate.
You made a great choice. No way I'd trade my Giulia for a 3 series, but I don't have a Discovery to fall back on. My Wife has a Fiat 500c that we're keeping as she loves it, but it's made out of chinese takeaway containers and has a three star euro ncap so don't want her taking the kids on the motorway.
 

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Interesting that BMW appear to be going back to a more integrated infotainment screen, like in the Giulia. I personally hate those stuck on afterthought iPad lookalikes in Audis and Mercs.
My thoughts exactly, I also dislike the stuck on I-pad infotainment screens, but I can't tell from the photos if this one is fully integrated like the Giulia.

I must though, be one of the few 'modern' motorists that doesn't get excited by infotainment systems. Give me a decent music source and I'm happy.

Do think those exhausts are a bit Giulia-esk though.
 

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I got bored before the end of the slideshow ... yawn


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I'm sure it will be another capable and dependable 3 series but I'm also sure car journalists must have a selection of sentences to describe a 'new' Beemer, such as the one (re)used here - "It is also sporting the redesigned headlights and taillights that will*set it apart from the outgoing model."

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