Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

Have read countless threads on this subject and still a bit puzzled please help!

I have been having really bad (endless cranking) cold starts on my 147 jtd 16v for a month or two now. Once finally started it is fine for the rest of the day. With this really cold weather i am having to use easy start most days...

- I have checked and replaced my glow plugs, all four are new. taken each one out and watched them glow red to double check!
- had a split lower boost hose, has been replaced for silicone
- cleaned EGR and throttle body very recently, not that dirty from last clean anyway.
- checked and cleaned MAP sensor and seems to be fine.
- replaced crank sensor, made no real difference
- replaced, fuel, oil and air filter and oil very recently.
- injectors were sent off for cleaning a few months ago and now report similar-ish correction values
- had new clutch and DMF before Christmas
- brand new bosch battery

fuel is definitely reaching the injectors they just don't seem to be receiving a signal to fire. I am now suspecting the camshaft sensor. I unplugged it while engine running and it did throw a MCSF warning then goes away once reconnected. All the while engine continued to run (I thought it would immediately cut out? like in the case of cam-belt failure) But if this is on its way out could it be that it gives a weak signal on cranking and stops injectors from firing until squirt of easy-start gives a bit of extra oomph?

thoughts....
 
G

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Is the amp/hr rate of the battery the same as the old one? If in doubt check with an Alfa dealer to confirm... There is a very good reason for me asking this but make sure first.

I have noticed a lot of similar faults with CPS failure on Alfa's in colder weather/ reverse of what other marques suffer on cps issues (when hot)... Try rocking the car in gear and see if it starts normally afterwards... If it does then 100% CPS, if it still doesn't then its 60/40% that it is the cause


Was the old o ring removed before refitting the new sensor?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
the old one was too small, so i put in the recommended size. think it is around 650cca from memory?

yes I had read about the O-ring problem so iImade double sure when I removed. will try the rocking technique tomorrow when i try to start her up!!
 
G

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Well thats within to 65amp/hr to 80amp/hr recommended range for 2.4JTD's 650 cold cranking amps

Hmmm..... what type and make of glow plugs did you get?

An old trick that I learned from lorry drivers over the years was to:
Try pre-heating the glow plugs three times before attempting to start in cold weather
That doesn't mean when the light goes out but rather when you hear the relay switch off (about 30 seconds at a time) Try it and see it fires up.:thumbs:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
long story actually, got some cheap ones of ebay. total load of crap. Ended up sending then back. bought set of bosch ones instead, same part number as ones i took out.

yeh i have tried that trick a few times. That worked initially when this problem reared its head, now that seems to make no difference.
 
G

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
The problem with easy start or Ether is that diesels can get "hooked" on it very easily.... It can limit the amount of set time that the glowplugs were switched on by the ECU
If it was me, I would do either a hard or soft (if you dont have an ODBII scanner) ECU reset proceedure to eliminate "learned" parameters, check the earthing points and connections to injectors and glow plugs etc... Just make sure they have a good clean connection... Just one dodgy connection can make the difference....
Then if all else fails try a known good CPS from a fellow owners car if you can at first to elimate the possibility of it simply just being a bad CPS that you got...

Next route would be a compression test on all cylinders to see if there is a big variance... Bear in mind that excessive use of ether in diesels can score bores and damage rings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
update on this issue for anyone reading in the future

Issue solved, reason: Faulty injector!

Went to get my starter motor tested and explained the problem to a trusted mechanic and he suggested an injector leak back test. I said that they had been cleaned and tested recently but we tried it anyway. Botched a kit together form some left over tube and four identical beer bottles. Sure enough, injector 3 was leaking back significantly more than the others. Basically this meant that when cranking this one was leaking through all the fuel meaning that the rail never gets up to 'firing' pressure, unless it had a little help from easy-start! all though in time it is likely this would have also fail as a starting method as the injector worsened. Anyway, replaced with a second hand one from parts gateway (great website for cheap parts btw) and hey presto, starts straight away now every time! Slightly surprising that the injector was not showing any other signs of failure. It had good correction values and had very recently been cleaned (slightly suspicious :s). I would deffo recommend a quick leak back test if you are having any other problems. very quick simple test.
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I had a 147 jtd till some uninsured **** wrote it off, but it never liked cold starts in sub zero weather. I used to have to do the glow plug thing 3 times to get a good start. I changed the glow plugs and never had any error codes on ECUscan, so never really got to the bottom of the cause. What you are describing might be something that the ECU can't detect? Can you explain the leak back test in more detail?
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top