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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Autolusso, we have ordered a Giulia for R&D

I decided to order the 2.0 petrol turbo as I feel there is a big shift away from diesels and we want the car that will be the popular seller so we can offer sensible extras, improvements and modifications

The car has been ordered from Mangoletsi, I have not always got on with them due to my history of new Alfa importing but I felt they are the best dealer to trust our order to

When we get the car it is coming straight in and coming to bits, and I mean to bits, every nut and bolt

Differential: will be going to Quaife so they can make us and improved ATB or LSD, see what it has and make better

ECU: will go to Dim Sport in Italy (if they don't already have one) for mapping, not sure what ECU it is going to have but probably something along the line of MEDC17 which is hard to map (late Giulietta has this kind of ECU) we can do it though

Turbo: going to Turbo Dynamics to see what can be done with Hybrid turbo, interestingly though the 280 BHP Guilia sold in America has exactly the same turbo fitted as the 200 BHP Euro spec car

Suspension: Eibach will already be working on shocks, springs and roll bars. I will be sending all bushed arms to Powerflex to workout what can be done to improve ride and longevity. We will work out what alignment can be done and work out how to improve it

Rust has always been and issue on Alfas, the later cars has not so much been in the body but more in sub frames and things like oil pipes so we will be looking at what can be protected if it is needed for the UK salty roads

Generally, we are going to get our heads round the car and see what can be done and how to work on them and look after them, looking forward to this, its a kind of more grown up car that has been available from Alfa for a long time, really looking forward to this :thumbu p:

Ned
 

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Super :)
 

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Nice one
Interesting to hear about the turbo being the same on the 280 vs the 200 too. What is providing the 80hp uplift do you reckon?
I'm not an engineer so I have no real idea, but surely it isn't just a different mapping?
 

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Nice one
Interesting to hear about the turbo being the same on the 280 vs the 200 too. What is providing the 80hp uplift do you reckon?
I'm not an engineer so I have no real idea, but surely it isn't just a different mapping?
This is the same engine as the Europe Veloce model as well right?
 

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This for sure will be an interesting and entertaining thread to read I have no doubts although I have the following doubts:

You are ordering a new car and take it straight to bits. How will you be able to assess the performance of the vehicle as standard. Surely you need a really good experience and understanding of the car before starting to fiddle with the unknown.
The ECU, how will Dimsport map the ECU without having the car there to develop their maps? Unless they already have tested and validate some alternative calibration I do not believe that this is a good approach.
With regards to the suspension, Is eibach really needed to mess around with it? Why would someone not specify the performance package with electronically adjusted dampers and instead use aftermarket? Again eibach is going to fiddle without having a car to test they fiddle on.
Quaiffe diff, again the performace package offers a LSD diff, I don’t see the point on quaiffe either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This for sure will be an interesting and entertaining thread to read I have no doubts although I have the following doubts:

You are ordering a new car and take it straight to bits. How will you be able to assess the performance of the vehicle as standard. Surely you need a really good experience and understanding of the car before starting to fiddle with the unknown.

Yes we are buying it to take it apart and understand it. We will look to improve it where possible

The ECU, how will Dimsport map the ECU without having the car there to develop their maps?

We will do the mapping but the ECU will need to be cracked first, if it is an MEDC17 ECU as I suspect it will have to be open up off the car to map.

Unless they already have tested and validate some alternative calibration I do not believe that this is a good approach.

Once we can get in to the ECU it will go on the dyno for testing

With regards to the suspension, Is eibach really needed to mess around with it? Why would someone not specify the performance package with electronically adjusted dampers and instead use aftermarket? Again eibach is going to fiddle without having a car to test they fiddle on.

Eibach will already have a car for testing

Quaiffe diff, again the performace package offers a LSD diff, I don’t see the point on quaiffe either.
I see the point of understanding the car and there will be ways of improving it which I am very much looking forward to


Ned
 

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feckin brilliant...I see the point..

as with all cars manufactured by a mass producer Alfa will have suspension, map,etc etc optimised for a balance between comfort ,economy,service intervals, emmisions and lastly performance....

so newalfisti, I am sure the idea is to take the things that Alfa will have designed to appeal to ''the average buyer'' such as economy, longer service intervals, emmisions (road tax) ride comfort etc and change them so the car is set up for a driver with peformance as the main consideration, laws of physics being what they are you can't change thngs without an effect elsewhere which is why R&D is required to discover what exactly those things are.

for example you can't increase power without affecting economy and to some degree emmisions,and handling without affecting ride characteristics....so taking the 4cyl petrol turbo and making it a bit ''hotter'' will give those of us that can't afford a 50k QV a viable alternative..seeing as a Giulia will very likely be my next car I am lookin forward to seeing what happens.


In addition reverse engineering the car will make the maintenance and servicing easier in the future, as by the time customers are coming for maintenance all the little foibles and idiosyncracies will be a known...

I also like the fact that the first Giulia Ned will be taking apart is his own...shows a commitment to looking after the new models that are on the way..:thumbs:


god forbid any of us have to go to a main dealer..:yikes:
 

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I think in the Giulia's case this is an especially good idea as currently in the UK there is a £30k 200hp Giulia and then a £60k 500hp Giulia with nothing in between. If Ned can develop a package for £5k or even £10k that turns the 200hp version into something a lot wilder and yet still being 20-25k cheaper than a QV, then there will be a market for that for sure. Alfa really should bring something into that gap themselves but as yet, nothing is confirmed for the UK, not even the 280hp engine which is going to be in US-spec cars and also in the European LHD Q4.
 

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Interesting idea. I imagine the petrol will be the one least company purchased. £5000 with no residual advantage at the end sounds a bit steep unless it gains a recognition like its own series badge I'd think? Still, as an alternative to the QV it could makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This for sure will be an interesting and entertaining thread to read I have no doubts although I have the following doubts:

You are ordering a new car and take it straight to bits. How will you be able to assess the performance of the vehicle as standard. Surely you need a really good experience and understanding of the car before starting to fiddle with the unknown.
The ECU, how will Dimsport map the ECU without having the car there to develop their maps? Unless they already have tested and validate some alternative calibration I do not believe that this is a good approach.
With regards to the suspension, Is eibach really needed to mess around with it? Why would someone not specify the performance package with electronically adjusted dampers and instead use aftermarket? Again eibach is going to fiddle without having a car to test they fiddle on.
Quaiffe diff, again the performace package offers a LSD diff, I don’t see the point on quaiffe either.
Just checked with Eibach and they already do a Pro Spring kit, part number E10-10-013-01-22

Ned
 

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This is a great commitment to any future owners of a giulia! Is it the first time you have done this or did you buy any previous alfa models when they were first released?

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Interesting concept.....

I'm fascinated that you go past several well-respected dealers to order from one who, whilst very long established, have of late had some very adverse comments made against them. I hope you have a better experience than my mate did when he arrived, at the appointed day and time, to collect his new 4C, to find it completely untouched since he'd seen it on its first arrival two weeks earlier.........
 

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Interesting concept.....

I'm fascinated that you go past several well-respected dealers to order from one who, whilst very long established, have of late had some very adverse comments made against them. I hope you have a better experience than my mate did when he arrived, at the appointed day and time, to collect his new 4C, to find it completely untouched since he'd seen it on its first arrival two weeks earlier.........
Sounds about right.
 

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What about body mods?

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Interesting concept.....

I'm fascinated that you go past several well-respected dealers to order from one who, whilst very long established, have of late had some very adverse comments made against them. I hope you have a better experience than my mate did when he arrived, at the appointed day and time, to collect his new 4C, to find it completely untouched since he'd seen it on its first arrival two weeks earlier.........
I chose Mangoletsi for a number of reasons one of them being that I have known Fraser Hudson for a long time and if I have an issues with Mangoletsi I can go straight to the top. So far my order has been handled very professionally and all documentation is in place

Yes there have been adverse comments but you could say that about any dealer

Particularly did not want to order from my local dealer as there would definatly have been problems

Ned
 

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@Autolusso, have you received the car yet? I'm curious to know if the engine is exactly the same as the 2.0 280hp in the Veloce model, and that means that a simple remap will unleash the 200hp petrol to its 280hp full potential.
 

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They are getting it in March. Its the same engine, Turbo and ECU. I have the 200hp, so in theory it a software upgrade to get it to 280. That's their plan once they can test it on the dyno.
 
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