[Cyclone]

For Info....

Bought an Autodelta Air Filter via their website for my GTV V6. On their website there is a picture of a red foam type filter with the autodelta logo written across it. When it finally arrived I opened the box to find a "Green Cotton" Filter in there instead

So I called them to ask why and they explained that they had had a very small amount of complaints from V6 Owners that they had experienced MAF problems with this filter, so they do not sell the red foam filter for the GTV V6 now but do sell this for the rest of the Alfa range . The Guy on the phone admitted that for the GTV V6 they now sell a " Green Cotton" filter that they have to buy in and is not specifically made for them. I told them that they need to update their website to show this, to which the Guy on the phone replied that they will eventually get around to it. Not too bothered as it's only a filter, but thought it was worth letting you know.

Jules.

 

[Alfa-Red]

not bad considering the green filters are dearer,if there selling for the same price

 

[Cyclone]

I agree.

I trawled the forum looking for recommendations and there was not a lot if any info on Green Cotton so I just assumed they didn't do one for the GTV V6.

Anyway I am not too fussed as it's only a filter so compared to OEM filter the gains will be negligable, but still a gain....

Anyone have a pic of the standard OEM filter please?

Jules.

 

[itacarboy]

The foam one that they show is for the 2.0, but the item is a green cotton one as you say, but auto delta understand alfas so don't worry, if they sell it it won't affect the maf,

 

[Cyclone]

I'm not worried about the MAF and would have been quite happy with a dry or partially oiled foam filter, foam filters normally offer better flow rates than the pleated cotton / paper types but this may be off set by less surface area in the case of the GTV filters. I am aware of how MAF's can become contaminated by a mixture of oil and dust residue as I used to own a B5 Audi S4 and these were prone to failure also.

I just find it a touch annoying / lazy that they appear to have been selling the green cotton one for a while whilst advertising a red foam one. I need to check the green cotton one to make sure it's genuine and not a cheap alternative.

Edit - Just checked the Green Filter website and the product code on the filter matches the one on their site, so it's genuine so am quite happy especially as already been stated it's a few pounds cheaper!

Jules

 

[itacarboy]

as you say foam filters may be better, but i have broke 3 mafs on various alfas that i have owned, and all came down to useing an oiled foam filter.

i have stuck with dry cotton now and have had no issues

this is only my opinion, but i have learnt from my mistakes

 

[Cyclone]

That's a very fair point.

 

[SpiderMJ]

Why would they not sell the same for the 2.0 TS then? I bought an auto delta filter for my twinnie and it was a black foam type. Starting to worry it will bugger the maf now...

 

[Cyclone]

I know it's strange isn't it?

Foam filters do not always need to be oiled although a very small amount will help trap particles, however I would guess that on these foam filters the pp rating will be such that particles that would be let through would not be large enough to cause any damage either to the MAF or engine. Oil residue could be an issue as outlined by Itacarboy, but if oil is to be used with a foam filter then it really only needs to be a very small amount which given the design of these filters (cylindrical with solid ends) it can be difficult not to over oil.

Jules.

 

[itacarboy]

The 2.0 filter and 3.0 filter is different, and the auto delta foam filter is a dry foam so it's fine, I ran my old gtv on one for 6 months and the owner on here is still using it with no probs,

as I said in an ealier post if they sell it, it will be fine, they understand alfas

 

[Cyclone]

The 2.0 filter and 3.0 filter is different, and the auto delta foam filter is a dry foam so it's fine, I ran my old gtv on one for 6 months and the owner on here is still using it with no probs,

as I said in an ealier post if they sell it, it will be fine, they understand alfas

In what way were the 2.0 and 3.0 foam filters different?

So which oiled foam filter did you use that wrecked your MAF's?

 

[Jano AD]

Gentleman
the issue lies with the MAF with CF2 and CF3 cars, CF1 cars have no issue with MAF.
The Autodelta black air filters are oil free and work perfectly on all other models. The issue is just with the intake design of GTV/Spider 3.0 and 3.2. Seems the lovely people at Bosch are making good money from their MAFS.
If you convert your GTV V6 with a GTA intake piping the problem goes away (you can then use our carbon GTA intake if you prefer), bear in mind we are talking a small percentage failures nevertheless we always take on board feedback from owners and we have to react with a solution rather then give excuses.
The other issue which I am sure some owners have come accross is that some sport air filter manufacturers list the same filter for 2 and 3 (slightly longer) liter cars and this again kills the MAF.

Jano

 

[Cyclone]

Gentleman
the issue lies with the MAF with CF2 and CF3 cars, CF1 cars have no issue with MAF.
The Autodelta black air filters are oil free and work perfectly on all other models. The issue is just with the intake design of GTV/Spider 3.0 and 3.2. Seems the lovely people at Bosch are making good money from their MAFS.
If you convert your GTV V6 with a GTA intake piping the problem goes away (you can then use our carbon GTA intake if you prefer), bear in mind we are talking a small percentage failures nevertheless we always take on board feedback from owners and we have to react with a solution rather then give excuses.
The other issue which I am sure some owners have come accross is that some sport air filter manufacturers list the same filter for 2 and 3 (slightly longer) liter cars and this again kills the MAF.

Jano

Hi Jano,

Thanks for taking the time to come onto the forum and offer an explanation.

If the black foam filter you sell doesn't use oil then how does it affect the MAF on the 3.0 GTV? How does the intake design kill the MAF?

Thanks
Jules.

 

[msgtv]

Gentleman
the issue lies with the MAF with CF2 and CF3 cars, CF1 cars have no issue with MAF.
The Autodelta black air filters are oil free and work perfectly on all other models. The issue is just with the intake design of GTV/Spider 3.0 and 3.2. Seems the lovely people at Bosch are making good money from their MAFS.
If you convert your GTV V6 with a GTA intake piping the problem goes away (you can then use our carbon GTA intake if you prefer), bear in mind we are talking a small percentage failures nevertheless we always take on board feedback from owners and we have to react with a solution rather then give excuses.
The other issue which I am sure some owners have come accross is that some sport air filter manufacturers list the same filter for 2 and 3 (slightly longer) liter cars and this again kills the MAF.

Jano

Do you have the figures to hand re the increased flow your filters allow over the OEM, if so i would be very interested, thanks.

 

[Jano AD]

There seems to be 2 issues firstly the MAF is sensitive and they fail anyway even with standard air filters.
Although you expect a certain lifespan from a component generally the GTV 3.0 MAF (also used in 156 V6) does not last as long as some other models but the efficiency deteriates and causes flat spots, bad starting or no starting in some cases.
I would say there is a 25% more likelyhood for a GTV MAF to fail compared to a 156 V6.
Fitting a 156 or 147 V6 intake will make them equal as far as failures, hence why I mentioned this previously.
There is obviously some design issue with the GTV V6 intake which causes the MAF to fail and I can not tell you exactly what it is as its a factory issue, but from all the testing we did when we first realised there was a problem all those years ago we logically tried a 156 V6 and later a GTA intake to realise that the biggest improvements in reliability came from the intake change.
The filter material did also make a difference but it was not a consistant improvement.
To cut a long story short I would always prefer to use the original air filter (replaced when required) or the Green Cotton as we found them the most reliable ones for the GTV 3.0.
Naturally you are guaranteed at some point to still replace the damn MAF as they are what they are, a critical component that ensures efficient running of an engine.

Jano

 

[Cyclone]

There seems to be 2 issues firstly the MAF is sensitive and they fail anyway even with standard air filters.
Although you expect a certain lifespan from a component generally the GTV 3.0 MAF (also used in 156 V6) does not last as long as some other models but the efficiency deteriates and causes flat spots, bad starting or no starting in some cases.
I would say there is a 25% more likelyhood for a GTV MAF to fail compared to a 156 V6.
Fitting a 156 or 147 V6 intake will make them equal as far as failures, hence why I mentioned this previously.
There is obviously some design issue with the GTV V6 intake which causes the MAF to fail and I can not tell you exactly what it is as its a factory issue, but from all the testing we did when we first realised there was a problem all those years ago we logically tried a 156 V6 and later a GTA intake to realise that the biggest improvements in reliability came from the intake change.
The filter material did also make a difference but it was not a consistant improvement.
To cut a long story short I would always prefer to use the original air filter (replaced when required) or the Green Cotton as we found them the most reliable ones for the GTV 3.0.
Naturally you are guaranteed at some point to still replace the damn MAF as they are what they are, a critical component that ensures efficient running of an engine.

Jano

Thanks Jano for a clear explanation.

Jules.

 

[ToxyMaTT]

If you convert your GTV V6 with a GTA intake piping the problem goes away (you can then use our carbon GTA intake if you prefer)

What do you mean by that ?

Change all the pipes between MAF and motor ?
You still keep the 3L GTV MAF ?

 

[SpiderMJ]

Good to know the air filter for 2.0 TS is a dry type. I suspected it had no oil by the feel of it but I suppose you never know for sure. I have heard about problems with oiled types causing maf failire thus my concern when it was mentioned above. Now that I think about it I may have done research on this before I bought it, but I have a dodgy memory when it comes to these things. Thanks for clearing it up Jano.

 

[Cyclone]

Well I fitted the Autodelta supplied Green Cotton Filter yesterday and to be fair the only difference I have noticed is the very slight induction whoosh, I am sure there is a slight performance gain though as compared to the filter I removed it appears to be less restrictive.

Whilst taking apart the intake etc I had a good look around to see how Jano's comments apply to why the MAF fails on the V6 more than other models and to be honest I am none the wiser. All I can conclude is that access to the box and pipes is rubbish, it's ridiculous that you have to remove the upper intake hoses to get to the top of the airbox properly and it's little wonder that so many of the top section flexi hoses fail / split. My theory is that the intake may actually be ok and the reason for premature MAF failure may be that the box and hoses aren't always put back together properly. For example where the bottom of the airbox inlet joins to the primary intake pipe that routes up to the back of the headlight, this needs to be seated correctly and can be a ***** to level up. On taking out my old Filter (which actually looks quite new) and putting it side by side the Green Cotton filter I noticed that the GC filter is very slightly longer, it also has a greater internal diameter and in order to make it fit I had to remove the trumpet that sat inside the old filter (this didn't really fit the GC filter anyway), once I had put the top of the airbox back on I removed the MAF to check that the new filter was seated ok, it was but it was also very slightly squashed on one side so it doesn't fit flush??? Bit strange, but will check it again to make sure it doesn't collapse as this filter isn't metal mesh re-inforced like the old one.

Jules.

 

[Alfa-Red]

the metal is in the cotton guaze, there pretty solid