[davemong17]

RE: Red warning light post, we are gonna attempt changing the cam belt ourselves, but we can't seem to find any reference about the timing (TBH, I know literaly NOTHING about being a mechanic but my step dad does). He says the marks have on the pulley and crank (???) have to line up with something. Does anybody know where I would find such info.

As before its a S reg, 146, 1.6 TS 16v

 

[GialloEvo94]

I posted links in your previous thread to all the workshop manuals which are in the Manuals section on Alfa145.com. These manuals tell you what all the marks mean and how to fit new belts and time up the car properly again afterwards.

You will need the Cam Locking blocks (cost about £25) and ideally a DTI guage. You can get away without a DTI gauge if you're very careful but don't even think about attempting to do the timing without the cam locking blocks because you will not be able to get the timing correct again afterwards. There are enough stories where tipex has been used to mark timing positions and the car has ended up running like a bag of ****e.

 

[davemong17]

Right, cheers my friend , you seem to know what you're on about, wanna come around and do it:lol:. i'll keep you posted

 

[davemong17]

What do the said blocks actually do? are they like a template thing?

 

[GialloEvo94]

North Wales is a 350 mile round trip for me so not really an option I'm afraid. If you get stuck, Howard at Paxtons garage in Wrexham will be able do it for you (at a price of course). Phone number is 01978-757588.

Just one other thing...if your belt has stripped a load of teeth then it's highly likely you've bent some (or all) of the 16 valves and you are almost certainly going to also need to do top end rebuild as well so just bear this in mind before starting to replace the belts. This will involve head off and replacement of the damaged valves (and guides if those are also damaged). You'll also need to fit a new head gasket when putting it back together again. If all 16 valves are gone then with all the new parts required (including new belts/tensioners) and the tools to do the job (you will also need a valve spring compressor to fit new valves) then you are looking at around £500+ if you do the job yourself, or nearly double that with additional labour rate charges if you get the job done by a garage.

 

[GialloEvo94]

What do the said blocks actually do? are they like a template thing?

See the 2nd and 3rd pictures in the following post...

http://forum.alfa145.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=10644&view=findpost&p=97856

 

[davemong17]

Can you lend me your blocks?

 

[GialloEvo94]

Can you lend me your blocks?

Mine will be no use to you. You've got a 1.6 TS and I've got a 2.0 TS. The blocks required for those two engine sizes are different.

Have a look on Shop4Parts because they have a 30% discount offer on at the moment for the cam locking blocks and you can currently get them for £20.30 (normally £29.00). See the link below. If you don't think you'll ever need them again then once you've finished with then, just stick them on eBay and you will get most (if not all) of your money back

• Shop4Parts - 1.6 TS Cam Locking Blocks

 

[Ralf S.]

Aye! 1.6 is different to 1.8 and 2.0ltr.. but £23 is good value.


Ralf S.

 

[davemong17]

Just thought of something.......don't the blocks work on the assumption that the cams are in the right position to start with, won't my timing be out because of what has happened? My belt hasn't snapped it's just missing a few teeth (on the bottom cog if that makes any difference!)

 

[GialloEvo94]

Just thought of something.......don't the blocks work on the assumption that the cams are in the right position to start with, won't my timing be out because of what has happened?

Nope. You lock the cams in position using the blocks (they can only hold the cams in ONE position so you have to turn the cams until they fit over the cam lobes as shown in the 3rd picture of the link I posted earlier). Then you set the crankshaft so that the piston in cylinder number 1 is at absolute TDC using a DTI gauge. With both of these things done you then have the correct timing set (pistons in the correct positions in relation to the correct cam positions) and can fit the belts, not forgetting to loosen both cam pulleys before doing so. The full procedure is documented in the workshop manuals.

 

[GialloEvo94]

You might find this document easier to follow when doing the belt change rather than the workshop manuals. Just ignore anything relating to the the balance shaft belt because you don't have one on your 1.6 TS engine (they only exist on the 2.0 TS engine).

 

[alfapet]

Nope. You lock the cams in position using the blocks (they can only hold the cams in ONE position so you have to turn the cams until they fit over the cam lobes as shown in the 3rd picture of the link I posted earlier). Then you set the crankshaft so that the piston in cylinder number 1 is at absolute TDC using a DTI gauge. With both of these things done you then have the correct timing set (pistons in the correct positions in relation to the correct cam positions) and can fit the belts, not forgetting to loosen both cam pulleys before doing so. The full procedure is documented in the workshop manuals.

I've just done a belt change on a 1.8 and it seems there are two locations where the cam blocks can fit. Working from the left we've gone three caps in on inlet and exhaust cams. The one on the inlet is stamped B2 and the one on the exhaust B1. We've now encountered running issues which I thought were due to a faulty cam position sensor, but it it in fact possible to get the timing out with the blocks in the wrong location and cylinder 1 at TDC? We used a dial gauge and took all usual precautions.

See:http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/206871-156-cam-sensor-help-please.html


Thanks, Tom

 

[GialloEvo94]

I've just done a belt change on a 1.8 and it seems there are two locations where the cam blocks can fit. Working from the left we've gone three caps in on inlet and exhaust cams. The one on the inlet is stamped B2 and the one on the exhaust B1. We've now encountered running issues which I thought were due to a faulty cam position sensor, but it it in fact possible to get the timing out with the blocks in the wrong location and cylinder 1 at TDC? We used a dial gauge and took all usual precautions.

See:http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/206871-156-cam-sensor-help-please.html

That's the correct position for the blocks (if my understanding of the locations you've used is correct). To confirm this, have a look at the 3rd picture in the following post...

• Alfa145.com - Cam Locking Blocks

My cam locking blocks came from EB Spares and have the letters "I" and "E" clearly marked on then for Inlet and Exhaust. I'm not sure what B1 or B2 means on yours so it's quite possible you've got them on the wrong cams. Certainly worth asking the seller which block goes on which cam. Also, you definitely have the blocks for a 1.8/2.0 TS engine haven't you? The ones for the 1.4TS and 1.6TS engines are different so if you're using those then you'll never be able to get your engine timed up correctly.

Here's a quick check list for making sure you get the timing correct...

• Correct blocks fitted (for a 1.8TS in your case) in the correct locations (inlet/exhaust cam blocks fitted on their correct cams and over the cam lobes they are supposed to be fitted to).
• Cylinder number one set at exact TDC using a dial gauge.
• Both inlet and exhaust cam pulley wheels loosened.
• Cam belt fitted so that the white markings line up with the associated reference marks on the pulleys.
• Belt tensioned correctly (with the crank locked) and the cam pulley wheels then fully tightened before finally removing the cam locking blocks.

Don't forget that when setting TDC with the dial gauge there is a point where the piston will be right at the top for a couple of degrees turn on the crankshaft. You need to find the exact middle point of this which you can do by putting a mark on the crankshaft pulley / block that corresponds exactly with when the piston first reaches TDC and another mark when the piston starts to drop from TDC again. Then use the middle point between those two marks for exact TDC. Also, when setting the belt tensioner, make sure the belt doesn't pull the crankshaft round at all (i.e. you need to make sure the crankshaft is locked solid so it can't move). If the crankshaft moves during tensioning then it will put the timing out.

HTH

 

[Ralf S.]

The one on the inlet is stamped B2 and the one on the exhaust B1.

Did you buy these from Shop4Parts?

If you look at their printed application list supplied with the blocks, the 1.8 is shown that way round... but all the other engines listed have it reversed (i.e. B1 is inlet and B2 is exhaust). This could be a typo'.. B1 just sounds like ought to be Inlet doesn't it?

I also need to check that I'm remembering this right.. may be total bow-locks.

But it'd be good to get to the bottom of it.. I have the same set of S4P cam-locks.

Ralf S.

 

[GialloEvo94]

I've actually got scanned pictures of my blocks at home if this will be of any help (probably should have posted these yesterday thinking about it). These scans will show you the cam profile cut-out on each of the cam blocks so would help you match up my "I" and "E" stamped blocks with your "B1" and "B2" stamped blocks so you know for certain which of yours is for the inlet cam and which is for the exhaust cam. Let me know if you want me to post up the scans and I'll do it when I get home from work

 

[Ralf S.]

Aye! Do it anyway.. as I have a set of S4P cam-locks.

I bought them because they were going cheap... and in the instructions it seems that B1 and B2 are (from memory) Inlet and Exhaust for every model listed, except the 1.8 which has them the other way round. I'll see if I can find my instructions to check the exact wording/model.


Ralf S.

 

[GialloEvo94]

OK, here are the profiles of the cam locking blocks. Note that these particular blocks are for use on the 1.8TS and 2.0TS engines only (the same blocks fit both of those engines). Just click on the following links...

• Inlet Cam Locking Block Profile Scans
• Exhaust Cam Locking Block Profile Scans
• Fitting Locations of Cam Locking Blocks

Note that the cut-out in the FRONT of the cam locking blocks always faces towards the cam belt side of the engine. You can clearly see that the inlet cam lobe points more towards the rear of the engine bay when the blocks are fitted while the exhaust cam lobe points more towards the front of the engine bay. These scans should help you work out which of your B1/B2 blocks is for the inlet cam and which is for the exhaust cam.

HTH

 

[Ralf S.]

Aye! Good lad... I'll fish out my S4P locks tonight and compare them.

Ralf S.

 

[alfapet]

Hello all,

Quick note as I'm late for work!

I think the problem was caused by a slipping inlet camshaft. I hadn't pulled up the bolts on the cam pulley enough and it was allowing movement when I rotated the engine by hand twice after applying full tension. This time everything feels much better so it's back together and idling well and will hopefully be test driven today.

For ref.

B1 is exhaust
B2 is inlet

Both caps go on the third cam cap from the left

INLET 1 2 [] 4 5
EXHAUST 1 2 [] 4

This is not the first one I've done, but it never ceases to confuse me! I do still consider it an absolute pig of a job, even with all the right tools (which I now have).

Cheers for the assistance everyone.