Alfa Romeo Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

i hope you are well!
I have a bit of a problem,
I have a 1998/1999 Alfa spider 2ltr twinspark

Start of the problem,
I was driving home and it cut out on me completely, no warning. engine just died.

Problem explained,
The car just turns over and over, does not fire, both the code and injector light stay on, the fans also spin up full speed on master ignition.

Things I have looked at
I have been though and cleaned all the earth points i can clean, I have checked the fuses, I have run a jump cable from the engine to the negative, and from ECU to the negative, also from the gearbox.

This I paid some one to look at
Had a guy out to look at it, cannot communicate with the engine ECU, can talk fine to the ABS and the heating ECU. He said there is power and earth to the ECU, advised me he thinks there is an issue with the ECU or code system

I dont think its code, code would not stop a running car as far as i am aware.

Not sure what else to do other than send off ECU for testing now?

Thanks,
FPM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,966 Posts
Back to basics, are you getting fuel to then engine, are the spark plugs sparking.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Appreciate the back to basics, no spark, no fuel (as far as im aware) and to be fair if i cant talk to the ECU, nothing is going to happen
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
I had this issue last winter, the car would turn over and over and over but never fire up, it turned out to be the Crank shaft sensor, cheap to buy and easy to replace just a little bit fiddly, easiest way to get to is from the top of the engine remove the air intake and you can get you hand down the back of the engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks Jon, one of the things that would defo cause a none start is phase senser.

The ECU however will not communicate to confirm or deny this?

Multiple scanners tried
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
I had no access to the ECU but spent alot of time searching and here for solutions to my problem, I took a punt and ordered the part for £25 and fired up as soon as I fitted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,457 Posts
You state the code light stays on, it should go out after a second or two when the key is moved to the first position. That therefore appears to be an immobiliser problem. Check the antenna near to the ignition lock hasn't been displaced and/or try another key. There are many threads on immobiliser problems, you may find an answer in one of those. I'd look into seeing if it is possible to disable the immobiliser even if only to eliminate it from the cause of the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
You state the code light stays on, it should go out after a second or two when the key is moved to the first position. That therefore appears to be an immobiliser problem. Check the antenna near to the ignition lock hasn't been displaced and/or try another key. There are many threads on immobiliser problems, you may find an answer in one of those. I'd look into seeing if it is possible to disable the immobiliser even if only to eliminate it from the cause of the problem.
I thought about the code system, but I have never known it kill a running car, i have also never known a code system issue leave the rad fans on full on ignition?
I have bought a second ECU now, is there anyone who can make the ECU virgien again? I could probably read enough to figure it out but time is an issue
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,457 Posts
When you say you've checked the fuses which did you check? Depending on your VIN (6023906/6023907 is the change over) fuses to check are F15 on the fuse board (black fuse holder), G389 on a wander lead from fuse board (red fuse holder) and/or S36 (black holder) in the boot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Wander lead board? Not heard that before? Good advice I'll recheck but I kinda hope the auto electrition did that
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,457 Posts
The workshop manual (hard copy) shows it, the G389, on a lead from the main fuse board at a nearby location. Note the manuals show left hand drive so actual locations might be mirrored.

Online manuals are shown on Totally Alfs's website, down at the bottom. So you ought to be able to see what I mean. There's a lot of manuals though! I find the paper copy much easier to flick through to find what I'm after.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
The workshop manual (hard copy) shows it, the G389, on a lead from the main fuse board at a nearby location. Note the manuals show left hand drive so actual locations might be mirrored......
On my LHD Ph1 the G389 fuse is not visible when you remove the fuse cover. It is attached to the left side of the fuse panel between the panel and the side wall and tucked behind the plastic dash. Other posts have shown people finding it under the bonnet next to the strut top mount. Take care when finding this fuse - there are two fuse holders in the same vicinity (in my car) which are 'loose' on the fusebox rails and have orange wires: G389 (Red Base - Code) and G391(Brown Base - Rear Fog Lights).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Guys, thanks, I really appreciate it. There are two fuses on the passangers top strut next to another small fuse box, these all check out fine
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Ok, I have been though every fuse on the car, no issues at all as far as i can see.
Still unable to talk with the ECU and the fans are still spinning up on ignition.
I clearly need another auto electrical guy, or to send this ECU off for testing.

Any recommendations as regards the ECU testing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
How do you feel about probing for power?

Remove the connectors from the ECU. Turn the ignition on. Probe Connector A for 12V at pins 8 and 18 and for continuity from the ECU case to ground.
If Good, connect wires from ground to Connector A pins 9 and 3 (not to the ECU, to the now dangling free plug). You should hear the Main Relay and Fuel Pump Relay click. Now check Connector A for 12V at pins 7 and 17.

If all those things are good then the ECU is receiving power as it should.

Turn off the ignition and plug in the ECU. Turn on the ignition and check for voltage (5V I believe) between ground and Connector B pin 29 (two wires are connected to pin 29, a blue and white/green). You'll likely have to scrape some insulation to get at the actual wire unless you can backprobe the pin). Do the same with Connector A pin 1. If you get nothing then your ECU is likely pooched and will need replacement or repair. I say likely because I don't know whether the AR Code stops these power connections becoming live. If you get voltages then look elsewhere for a problem, it's likely not the ECU.

As for fans, any chance the air conditioning is turned on? Fans are controlled by the AC and by the ECU switching the relay coils to ground.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Talking from a Fiat coupe perspective here but I think the 1998 2.0L Spider has the same Bosch M2.10.4 ECU so will have the same issues.

When the fans come on with ignition and non-start it's usually due to the ECU chip not being seated correctly in the socket. Happens when fitting a new chip the wrong way around or if the existing chip is loose... common with tuned chips using an extra copy-protection board which can cause connection problems.

Remove ECU, pop it open, remove the firmware chip and re-seat it. If that doesn't help then chip may be corrupted, in which case a standard replacement may fix it. If you have a tuned chip with protection board then that may be the issue.

If removing the chip, it's a 32 pin PLCC chip in a socket, be sure to only remove the chip from the socket and don't break the entire socket off the board... sounds crazy but I've seen it done more than once! You can use a tiny screwdriver to lever the chip up at opposite diagonal corners gradually, one side at a time.

If you have spare ECU you could try swapping the firmware chip from that into your original ECU, if re-seating the chip in original ECU didn't help.

If still no luck then the new ECU will need reset to virgin state to work with the immobiliser system, I can do that on the Bosch M2.10.4 in the Fiat coupe so may be able to help if your Spider has the same ECU.

Or if someone can send me the binary file for the Spider 2.0L Bosch M2.10.4 firmware I may be able to modify that and send you a new chip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Hi Graham, we talked over on fccuk :) it's like the vis ECU I think?
Barby, amazing useful info let me check that
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top