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Ouch on the 159 point. Also confirmed what I said about racing on Sunday before, which bosses here were quick to dismiss.
 

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I don't think the 159 was so bad. I just think it was ridiculously overpriced for what you got. (and they launched in SA with the 1.9 which was a really silly marketing gaff)
 

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Wester is right about the 159 in thatbit wasn't state of the art. Everything in it besides blue&me could be found in a 156. It had a brilliant chassis, brakes and suspension but neither of those were groundbreaking in any way.

The "facelift" saw addressing to several issues but even there they could have supplied more modern kit. The facelift was priced really well though. When compared to the pre facelift models, the 159 tbi ti was a bargain.

I have also mentioned that niche models don't make sales volumes and they fall off the popularity wagon in a short period. What Alfa needs is the models that sell in volume like sedans, SUV's and hatchbacks. Then there needs to be variation. Coupes spun off sedan models. Two door and four door hatchbacks. Sportwagons. And perhaps even do something new with the SUV's too, similar to the X5 and X6 variation.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Wester is right about the 159 in thatbit wasn't state of the art. Everything in it besides blue&me could be found in a 156. It had a brilliant chassis, brakes and suspension but neither of those were groundbreaking in any way.

The "facelift" saw addressing to several issues but even there they could have supplied more modern kit. The facelift was priced really well though. When compared to the pre facelift models, the 159 tbi ti was a bargain.

I have also mentioned that niche models don't make sales volumes and they fall off the popularity wagon in a short period. What Alfa needs is the models that sell in volume like sedans, SUV's and hatchbacks. Then there needs to be variation. Coupes spun off sedan models. Two door and four door hatchbacks. Sportwagons. And perhaps even do something new with the SUV's too, similar to the X5 and X6 variation.
Yes, they need to join Audi and BMW in the game. A4 - 3 Series, A5 - 5 Series, A8 - 7 Series, that sort of thing. We all know Alfa is something special, but to really see the brand succeed they need the numbers to justify the R&D costs.
 

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I'm really excited for the brand. We will see the Giulia 1st next year??? And maybe a bloody fast Giulietta?

Right in time for my upgrade after the GQV has been paid off. But by the looks of car prices in SA, we will once again get the short end of the stick, expensive base spec cars competing with high spec cars for the same price.
 

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Yes, they need to join Audi and BMW in the game. A4 - 3 Series, A5 - 5 Series, A8 - 7 Series, that sort of thing. We all know Alfa is something special, but to really see the brand succeed they need the numbers to justify the R&D costs.
A6 = 5 series. A5 is a strange looking A4. From the inside you could have had an A4 anyway. But the point you are making is valid.

Alfa made a killing off the GT. It was basically an superstuning coupe based on the interior of a little hatchback and underpinnings of a sportwagon. It was sold at sub GTA prices hence outselling the GTA by a factor of 8 to 1. Do it again. But this time do with it what was done with the original Bertone GT and Algetta GT: Have the Junior model (1.4M/A), the "1750" model (term used loosely) which will be using the new 2.0 tbi engine then develop a totally different "GTV" version with red brembos and different body styling and wings and air vents and low front airdams and big V6 twin turbo engines and fat wheels and all that. You don't need a totally separate model. The 116 was developed from the Alfetta underpinnings and the 916 was developed from a Fiat Tipo!

So yes Mr. Wester... Start from scratch. But keep scrating till we don't have 8 models, but 8 model ranges with different variants in each range... :smoker:
 

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A6 = 5 series. A5 is a strange looking A4. From the inside you could have had an A4 anyway. But the point you are making is valid.

Alfa made a killing off the GT. It was basically an superstuning coupe based on the interior of a little hatchback and underpinnings of a sportwagon. It was sold at sub GTA prices hence outselling the GTA by a factor of 8 to 1. Do it again. But this time do with it what was done with the original Bertone GT and Algetta GT: Have the Junior model (1.4M/A), the "1750" model (term used loosely) which will be using the new 2.0 tbi engine then develop a totally different "GTV" version with red brembos and bifferent body styling and wings and air vents and low front airdams and big V6 twin turbo engines and fat wheels and all that. You don't need a totally separate model. The 116 was developed from the Alfetta underpinnings and the 916 was developed from a Fiat Tipo!

So yes Mr. Wester... Start from scratch. But keep scrating till we don't have 8 models, but 8 model ranges with different variants in each range... :smoker:

Amen !!!
 

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I agree with his sentiment regarding the 159. When it came out I was so excited and went to a dealer in Johannesburg to test drive it. I was ready to buy one. I drove the 2.2 and I was so disappointed I thought I was going to cry. The car just didn't feel like an Alfa at all. I didn't like the handling, it felt heavy on its feet. At the time I didn't realize it was because it was too heavy, period. Performance of the 2.2 motor was woeful and it sounded like my vacuum cleaner. I was devastated and it put me off Alfa for more than a decade. Later versions with proper engines were better but I never got to a point where I wanted to buy one and live with it for a few years. Fortunately the Giulietta came out and that fitted me like a glove. I'm on my second one. I'm excited about the Giulia, it seems Alfa learned from their 159 experience. The SUV's should do well to attract new customers to the brand. The next BMW 1-series will be FWD, if things work out by the time Alfa replaces the Giulietta it may just be the only RWD hatch on the market. That may just be my next car!
 

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I agree with his sentiment regarding the 159. When it came out I was so excited and went to a dealer in Johannesburg to test drive it. I was ready to buy one. I drove the 2.2 and I was so disappointed I thought I was going to cry. The car just didn't feel like an Alfa at all. I didn't like the handling, it felt heavy on its feet. At the time I didn't realize it was because it was too heavy, period. Performance of the 2.2 motor was woeful and it sounded like my vacuum cleaner. I was devastated and it put me off Alfa for more than a decade. Later versions with proper engines were better but I never got to a point where I wanted to buy one and live with it for a few years. Fortunately the Giulietta came out and that fitted me like a glove. I'm on my second one. I'm excited about the Giulia, it seems Alfa learned from their 159 experience. The SUV's should do well to attract new customers to the brand. The next BMW 1-series will be FWD, if things work out by the time Alfa replaces the Giulietta it may just be the only RWD hatch on the market. That may just be my next car!
I waited long aneven after ordering an 8C red GQV in 2010 with pano roof and all the extras, I declined it when it arrived (Had another buyer lined up). I waited for the "facelift" 159 to arrive in 2011 and after a test drive, bought the first one sold in the Cape, a red 159 tbi TI. It was just so much better than the older 159's! It handled superbly, pulled like a train and had phenominal brakes. I for one am glad that I waited on the 159ti instead of taking a GQV.

2 years later i bought a V6 ti. It feels heavier in the nose than the TBi but the power more than makes up where the TBi might gain in handling. Just put your foot flat and hold on and the electronic nannies get overpowered by the engine and you get to have a lot of fun while you're at it.
 

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Please Mr. Wester can we have more Alfa and Fiat models with proper automatic transmissions. I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants an autobox for dealing with the day to day traffic these days. A TCT G or an AMT Fiat 500 don't appeal to me. An auto 1750 159 would've been the perfect car for my needs. Right now an automatic 1.6 500x would suit my needs perfectly (and no I don't want a 1.4t TCT 500x...too expensive mainly)
 

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Please Mr. Wester can we have more Alfa and Fiat models with proper automatic transmissions. I'm sure I'm not the only one that wants an autobox for dealing with the day to day traffic these days. A TCT G or an AMT Fiat 500 don't appeal to me. An auto 1750 159 would've been the perfect car for my needs. Right now an automatic 1.6 500x would suit my needs perfectly (and no I don't want a 1.4t TCT 500x...too expensive mainly)
Why don't you like a dual clutch box? The TCT on my QV is absolutely excellent. I wouldn't have bought the car if it had a conventional torque convertor automatic gearbox. I find the new N-mode brilliant, the car is always in the right gear and seems to anticipate what I need it to do almost perfectly. Most torque convertor boxes hunt under certain conditions and can be slow to kick down when you need to. With a dual clutch box you can be as involved (or not) as you want to be and the gear changes are rifle-bolt fast.
 

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Why don't you like a dual clutch box? The TCT on my QV is absolutely excellent. I wouldn't have bought the car if it had a conventional torque convertor automatic gearbox. I find the new N-mode brilliant, the car is always in the right gear and seems to anticipate what I need it to do almost perfectly. Most torque convertor boxes hunt under certain conditions and can be slow to kick down when you need to. With a dual clutch box you can be as involved (or not) as you want to be and the gear changes are rifle-bolt fast.
It's not that I don't like it. I think it's fantastic. The issue for me is that it's expensive and I drive alot for work and for crawling 10km/h traffic i honestly think an ordinary slushmatic box is better. We're moving to a new house this month and I wont be able to afford to spent 350-400k on a new car and keep the Spider. My requirements are:

ideally under R300k
Automatic box
Must be new or nearly new (for maximum warranty & motorplan)
Very comfortable.
 

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I like Wester's blunt, no nonsense approach. Even when he's admitting Alfas flaws and that the 159 was a basket case from the get go, being built on the heavy GM premium platform.

My own view is that this time, Alfa has got it right. Stick to the brand's core values of lightweight, excellent handling RWD sports saloons and GTs with smaller engines.

Its the execution of the core values which is key.

They nailed it with the 8c and 4c.

Now for the Giulia et al.
 

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I like Wester's blunt, no nonsense approach. Even when he's admitting Alfas flaws and that the 159 was a basket case from the get go, being built on the heavy GM premium platform.

My own view is that this time, Alfa has got it right. Stick to the brand's core values of lightweight, excellent handling RWD sports saloons and GTs with smaller engines.

Its the execution of the core values which is key.

They nailed it with the 8c and 4c.

Now for the Giulia et al.
And also, they've got the budget
 
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