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Discussion Starter #1
Hello guys,

Starting this thread, because i really will need your help, while building my 1st Italian Time Attack car. Since now I have some experience with German cars, mainly the C20XE engine on old OPEL platforms. I know, C20XE is monsterous N/A engine!!! So capable, so reliable and so well designed. But that's past, now i have good Alfa Romeo 145 with swapped 2000 16V TS engine and i love it, I love the response, the way how it revs on 2nd and 3rd gears.....It is good engine, despite of what other people talks, i think the Italians made a good N/A engine.

So, I decide to build the car for my new hobby -Time Attack series. I participated 2 event last month and overall i am pretty happy with the car, but i need to modify many thinks, thats why I decided full build, to make it proper.

The Car

I bought the car before 1.5 years, fro ma guy from our Alfa Romeo club here in my country. It was bargain, and I decided to buy it and store it, and to start work over it when time comes. I do not have enough time for building my cars, thats why usually i pay to workshops to do this instead of me. Time is money, and my time is really limited. I am manager in Hewlett-Packard company and oftenly I do not have time at all for my hobbies. So when i build a car, I create the Project Plan and then delegate the work over several workshops. But this time, I want to build the car from the scratch and I want to manage the most of the work. On other hand finance are limited too, because I bough new home before several weeks, and the Nismo GTR ***** will have to stay in my dreams for while :) I have no other choice, i have to build the little Alfa....
The car is Alfa Romeo 145, originally was with 1600 16V TS engine, then swapped to 2000 16V TS, just before I bought it from the local Alfa club. The engine is equiped with Colombo&Bariani Massimo Street cams, injectors from Saab Turbo, OSRAV Sport Kit suspention, Group N remap, Eta Beta lightweight rally wheels.

Here some pics of the car from my last track days:

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/s720x720/253555_482668868418572_1600954687_n.jpg

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/270644_482668848418574_1278844821_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/644136_482668818418577_108117706_n.jpg

http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/199768_458095154211805_39214298_n.jpg

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/394279_4539458683953_346875603_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/558490_4539450723754_244999195_n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/414739_4103749003290_1987681351_o.jpg

http://sphotos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/252845_220102948008500_5649346_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/257032_220103098008485_6695000_o.jpg

Club Alfa Romeo Bulgaria

Club Alfa Romeo Bulgaria

Overall the car is OK, but i am not happy with the performance, with handling with steering, with one word, I have to manage to fix almost the whole car.
The engine's performance is nice, but I need more, a lot more and i want to stay to N/A scheme. So my questions are:
1. Is there more agressive cams for this engine, because the C&B Massimo Street are not enough!!
2. Are there options for ITBs for this engine?
3. Currently i am with gearbox from 1600cc engine, is the gearbox from 2000cc Cloverleaf better?

The suspension is OSRAV Sport Kit, dampering adjustable, but it seems it need to be hardened because it is too soft, and i had turn the switch to hardest position!! So my questions:
1. How can i make the OSRAV kit hardener ?
2. Suggest me some good options for coilovers for this car. I need a dampering control for sure and i want to be good for track use mainly!
3. Swaybars? What and from where?
4. Camber plates? From where?

So lets stop here, i will have many more questions, but lets first sort those problems and then wil lgo ahead.
Thank you in advance for your advices guys. I know that you have much more knowledge on building proper Alfa Romeo track car, so i will definatley need your help and advices.

PS: Hey, why there is no option to insert pics, but only URLs?

Best Regards
Angel Uzunov
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I need ideas guys!!
 
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Cam's you can get any company to make you custom cams or get your own reground to whatever lift and duration you like. Get rid of the balance belt off the 2l engine also you don't need it for racing.

Suspension, check out an english company called Gaz Coilovers they will make you any kind of custom valved suspension you like but be aware suspension isn't cheap not for good suspension. Don't really need camber plates on them as you can adjust them if at the bottom of the suspension if you want to do that otherwise you will need custom top mounts made to be able to adjust the camber properly with the strut.

The 2l gearbox is just longer than the 1.6 and has a slightly taller 5th gear the rest aren't really all that different.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi guys,

So, as Demien said, i send an email to GAZ in order to provide me a price list for the following models suspensions:

GAZ DA Adjustable Coilovers
GAZ GP Coilover Adjustable Dampers
GAZ GOLD PRO Adjustable Coilovers
GAZ GT Adjustable Dampers

Also i asked them, if they are able to supply only dampers with damping and rebound control for Alfa Romeo 145. Let's wait until they provide me with feedback regarding my request.
Meanwhile I searched the market for other possible options for suspension kits for 145 platform (typo 930). I found several available coilover kits with prices between £600-£900: List below is from cheapest to highest price:


1. Apex RDX Coilovers - don't know anything about this brand. As i understand, this model is only height adjustable with full suspension travel. But there was no information if this kit have damper adjustable. Price: £497.00 (inc. VAT)

2. Koni Sport Suspension Kits - 4 levels of damper adjustment, but no height adjustment. Will lower your car approx 35-40mm predefined. It is not coilover. High quality of dampers and springs. The interesting here is the Lifetime warranty, which the company offers to its customers. I am not sure how good this suspension kit is, but definitely Koni yellows are great dampers. Price: £631.00 (inc. VAT)

3. FK Konigsport Coilovers - not many information about this, the only thing i heard, that this is the best coilover kit from FK manufacturer, because they use Koni Sport (yellows) dampers as a base for this package. This mean, that you will have 4 stage damper control and good quality from Koni! Price: £664.00 (inc. VAT)

4. H&R Monotube Coilovers - Height adjustment from 25mm-60mm and 30% up-rated sport dampers. I was informed by H&R, that the dampers are Koni, so here we have high quallity build too. No damper adjustment available for this package. Also in their website, i found only for Alfa 155, there was no option for 145, but as we all know, it will fit perfectly to Alfa 145 model. I do not know why they did not listed the Alfa 145 as option too. Price: £791.00 (inc. VAT)

5. KW Variant 1 Coilovers - i only know that they are expensive!! KW is high quality brand, but no idea about Variant1 handling potential. Price : £819.00 (inc. VAT)

So, i will have to decide, which one will suit the best for my project. I definitely do not prefer to pay more than £600 for suspension kit, so i have to check other options like 4 dampers + 4 springs. For example 4 Koni's or Bilstein B6 + 4 springs. Maybe it will cost less.

I have ordered full polybushes kit for Alfa Rome 145 from a local manufacturer.
Also i bought FIAT 20VT 4 pot Brembo calipers.

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/548710_487630737922385_654673460_n.jpg

I will have to start searching for bigger wheels now, 16" or 17". I am not sure, which size is more suitable. Here the main dilemma is, which race tyre size is cheaper: the 16" or 17"? And which is easier to find on the market.

After coffee conversation with one friend from motorsport, I am now thinking, if i should stick with Alfa Romeo 2000cc 16V TS engine, or should i swap it with FIAT 2000cc 16V engine from Coupe, Delta HPE etc. The main question is, which engine is more suitable for motorsport, reliability and mainly the build cost? Now i am checking this and will post when i have results. You can help me here, too.
So for now i am still on collecting information level. Meanwhile i bought several things, but the build is not yet started. I drove the car to the garage where I will start building it, with the help from guys from local workshops.

Best Regards
Angel Uzunov
 
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I've had Variant 2's and they would be no where near enough for the road too soft as a friend now uses them in his 155 track car and it's brilliant for the road but not for the track you need fairly solid suspension for the track. I have owned Ebiachs and Bilsteins off an ex race car 147 and my lord they are hard barely any movement in them but they are just perfect for the track.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi Damien,

Thanks for your feedback. So what do you suggest for track use: Bilstein B6 Sport + Eibach Pro Kit?


Regards
 
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I have no idea about the spring rates in the racing suspension I sent Blistein an email before but they never got back to me, I never emailed Eibach about the springs. But you need them set up for the weight of the car correctly there is some chaps on here that race the 145's
 

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forget the suspension options listed and go for AST as they make what you need and also manufacture adjustable top mounts.
 

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forget the suspension options listed and go for AST as they make what you need and also manufacture adjustable top mounts.
Same goes for D2 racing shocks - you can spec the spring rate and top mount will be camber adjustable for 145 - my 156 is not adjustable because of double wishbone. It is height adjustable and damp rate adjustable.

Talking about wheels - The Brakes from the Fiat is the same size as the 2002 156 GTA 305mm - they work inside 16" wheels (only difference is 4 hole not 5 hole). But you need rims that go quite wide out to clear the caliper. 16" semi-slick rubber here in SA is nearly 1/2 the price as 17". The best is to ask the other race guys where they buy the wheels and then you ask the supplier what is the most popular sizes?

I run 205/50R16 as is is the same price as the 195/55R15 and 1/2 the price of the 225/45R17 - these are all club standard sizes. Smaller wheel gives you shorter gears - perfect for track use - as is the 1600 gearbox - also shorter gears than the 2000 gearbox.
 

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And concerning the KW suspension, look at their website:

http://kw-suspension.com/us/kw_variant_1.php

The KW 1 line in non-adjustable and definately not suited for track-day use. It's their entry system and suited for road use, as are the other options that you mention. Just do some internet research and you will find out that just a set of normal dampers and lowering springs (which you already have) will not do.

For instance take a look at the KW, AST or Intrax website, they all have extensive racing experience:
http://www.intraxracing.nl/?cat=productpage&id=425&title=Products
http://www.intraxracing.nl/?lang=EN

And since the budget that you're on, the car that you have and the modification already done to you're engine I would not change anything to the engine. Other modifications are expensive. Put that money in a good suspension (set-up) and loose weight (from the car ofcourse ;)) for example by using light weight body parts and removing the interior (if not already done).

And concerning the 1.6 gearbox that you use; stick with it. It will improve acceleration in gear, and you don't need the top end speed given by the probably higher geared 2.0 gearbox.

Wheels and tires; just compare internet tire prices of both 16" and 17" track-day tires and make a choice. Mayby even consider 15", they are def. cheaper, and larger (and heavier) wheels doesn't necessarily mean higher cornering speeds. Also depending on the brakes that you (want to) use ofcourse.
 

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onemanshow is right loose weight cut out everything you dont need, remove emmisions gear, excess wiring for non essential systems. Rear arms are very heavy in a 145 so maybe compare Gtv subframe weight, or look at 156 conversion (needs fabrication to body shell).
 

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GTV rear suspension is a viable alternative but although it is aluminum its still heavy thanks to its complex design.
156 147 and GT rear suspension is completely different and will need extensive changes on the structure. Easier and probably cheaper to use a 147.
we did upgrade my GTV's front suspension to the 156 double wishbone setup and it really helped a lot especially with a v6 turbo motor that had to be manhandled around a track.
 

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GTV rear suspension is a viable alternative but although it is aluminum its still heavy thanks to its complex design.
Really? Haven't thought to go that far with mine. Just bought a Fiat Coupe / Brava front ARB to make it handle a bit better.

Anyway I'm really interest to know more about the above mentioned upgrade? Is it a direct swap? Any serious modifications necessary?
 

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Thanks guys for all your answers in my topic. Really appreciate your help. Unfortunately i sold the Alfa 145, because i dont want to deal anymore with typo 930. This platform is pretty old now, and there are no enough performance parts for it. I am looking for Alfa 147 now, but I think to stick to 1.6 16V TS motor, in order to build it as Super 1600 specs. Will keep you posted.

Best Regards
 

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The 147 has double wishbone suspension front, so it is tricky to get a lot of camber - by dropping the suspension you get a bit - maybe even enough. The 1.6 does not have balance shafts - so that is one less thing to do.
 

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Really? Haven't thought to go that far with mine. Just bought a Fiat Coupe / Brava front ARB to make it handle a bit better.

Anyway I'm really interest to know more about the above mentioned upgrade? Is it a direct swap? Any serious modifications necessary?
you have to change the turret tops, which is challenging.
the rest is bolt on
 

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Thanks guys for all your answers in my topic. Really appreciate your help. Unfortunately i sold the Alfa 145, because i dont want to deal anymore with typo 930. This platform is pretty old now, and there are no enough performance parts for it. I am looking for Alfa 147 now, but I think to stick to 1.6 16V TS motor, in order to build it as Super 1600 specs. Will keep you posted.

Best Regards
Personally i think it is a better base to start from.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
When i saw how many suspension options i have for the 147 platform, i was astonished, and i decide to sell the 145 and start from scratch with the 147. I decide to search for the 1.6 16V TS version, because i want to participate in the lowest class in our local Time Attack series, which is up to 1603cc of the engine. So i believe the 1.6 twin spark is a good option. There are nice rally cams 300 inlet 310 exhaust, i am aiming at 200-220hp. I want to be capable to "fight" with the Saxos, which are really mean machines. It will be expensive, i know that. :)
So the searching is ongoing, will keep you posted.
One thing, i have to aim in the 120hp version instead of the 105hp version, right? Whats the difference really?

BR
Angel Uzunov
 

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