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Discussion Starter #21
At last year’s Goodwood FOS I asked after the Tonale and I was told the design was going to be changed before it comes out. I’m interested to know if it can coincide with the end of my Stelvio PCP.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Probably find legislation will be putting SUVs off the roads by then!....and as usual ALFA would have missed the boat!



A Stelvio 2.2 diesel has Co2 of 138g and a 159 1.9 has 150g.
 

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Reminds me of the 'Facts' presented by the Anti 4x4 brigade. They would never admit that the Mini Cooper S for example kicked out far more CO2 than the big old 4x4s they hated so much. And never picked on kiddy carriers or executive barges. I blame the rise of the bland SUV on them as they had the interior space and practicality of a trad 4x4 but styling of a friendly car. Just what a lot of people want I guess, but real 4x4s died out as well. I wondered how long it will take the Anti 4x4 Brigade to start picking on these SUV things...
 

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The headlines were that a couple of incidents of SUVs mounting th epavement and sadly killig people, and it was almost like ONLY SUVs do this- normal cars do it too. And the other comment that they're often based on trucks. Erm, since when..? Apart from the very few pickup derived 4x4s..? And the SHOCK HORROR that SUV related accidents had gone up massively, after just stating that SUV sales have shot up dramatically. No surprise there then.. Lazy piece of journalism with an agenda to grind imho. Typical ANTI story IMHO.

Personally, I think it's daft to drive big SUVs and 4x4s in cities and it's normally just a status symbol BUT... there's plenty of smaller 'normal' type cars with worse emissions and just as dangerous in an accident. Smaller SUVs are no different in footprint to normal cars but I admit I have no idea on weights/emissions tbh. I'd expect they are higher, but I wouldn;t be surprised if they weren't much worse.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
The Stelvio is a couple of blokes lighter than a Macan and is RWD most of the time. The aero effects of the greater frontal area don’t come into play so much at lower speeds but you can’t generalise with cars a# you say. I’m glad you explained what you’d written before.
 

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Reminds me of the 'Facts' presented by the Anti 4x4 brigade. They would never admit that the Mini Cooper S for example kicked out far more CO2 than the big old 4x4s they hated so much. And never picked on kiddy carriers or executive barges. I blame the rise of the bland SUV on them as they had the interior space and practicality of a trad 4x4 but styling of a friendly car. Just what a lot of people want I guess, but real 4x4s died out as well. I wondered how long it will take the Anti 4x4 Brigade to start picking on these SUV things...
The point is that the popularity of all these SUVs is making or more difficult for the government to achieve their overall automotive emissions output. It does not matter how efficient they are or the CO they put out...the fact is than many folks like the image rather than need the space. So no matter how efficient the new motor in the SUV might be there is no escaping the fact that, that very same engine would burn less fuel and push out less emissions if it was in a smaller, lighter and more aerodynamic car.....and that's why the powers that be are considering clamping down on them.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
What about the older cars like the Mercedes ML the fumes of which I could taste going past me today? The owner obviously keeps it clean but it ain’t clean. You need to look at the details rather than generalise and also consider how much these cars are used unnecessarily. And a Stelvio 2.2 diesel has Co2 of 138g and a 159 1.9 has 150g.
 

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Absolutely...they reckon that the oldest 10% of cars make over 50% of the pollution.....but generally we are taking about newer SUV models which are generally just nothing more than bigger, heavier, thirstier versions of the hatchbacks they are based upon.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Do you mean Crossovers?
Specifically which cars? The raised floor is something that’s going to remain popular as cars become electrified as it creates somewhere to put the batteries.
 

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What about the older cars like the Mercedes ML the fumes of which I could taste going past me today? The owner obviously keeps it clean but it ain’t clean. You need to look at the details rather than generalise and also consider how much these cars are used unnecessarily...……………..
Absolutely...they reckon that the oldest 10% of cars make over 50% of the pollution.....
This could be read that you both favour governments banning older cars and forcibly scrapping them to help achieve their targets. Of course to have any real impact on the climate the same would have to apply throughout the world including Third World countries.
How popular is compulsory scrappage going to be?
 

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Personally, I think it's daft to drive big SUVs and 4x4s in cities and it's normally just a status symbol BUT...
An SUV a ''status symbol''?? There's lots of things I'd level against an SUV, but that's definitely not one of them!
I just consider them to be the family workhorse and nothing else.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Steps back and waits for result of comment......

Mine is ; what’s this eternal discussion on the thread about the Giulia GTA that’s going to be at Geneva?
 

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LOL!! Never fails - I knew it'd only be a matter of minutes, works every time! :LOL:
 

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I was responding to someone else, and as ALWAYS you've jumped in yet again. You can't help yourself.

I'm curious, nay amazed, that someone would see an SUV as a 'status symbol'.
Hatchbacks certainly weren't seen in that way, and the SUV has pretty much taken on the role that the hatchback used to do.
 

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Slightly underwhelmed....
We need some new cars AR....not just rehashes of rehashes of rehases, as good as they are (and ones most people can afford to buy)
933411
 

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I agree. As nice as it is, it's not affordable for 99% of alfa enthusiasts like myself. There's nothing fresh and exciting in the showrooms. I remember the excitement when the 147 replaced the 145 and the 156 was launched and selling well. There were also stunning coupes and convertibles available. Such a shame how it's turning out. If only they'd kept the momentum up.
I'd like to change my Giulietta this year , but need a hatch for the dog and the Stelvio is too big for my needs. The Tonale could have been a really good option, but I can't be bothered waiting so long as it's now been delayed by another year. Oh well, maybe Topgear will do a good review of this GTAM or whatever it's called. Won't bring the sales in or stop the dealers from closing though!
 
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