The systems are not the same per se, but are made by the same company: Graziano Trasmissioni

 

They are similar.
In fact most of the systems are similar as almost all of them use the Magneti Marelli system, even BMW.

The first with the system was the Ferrari 355F1. But that only had a cable throttle, so could only blip during gear changes by using the idle actuator. The 156 Selespeed built on that by adding fly-by-wire.
On the 156 it was a £1000 option, on the Ferrari it was a £10,000 option!!

 

David, BMW's DMG (if that's the one you are referring to) is made by Getrag, which coincidentally is the supplier of the new double-clutch system to Ferrari for the California.

 

I'm assuming we are talking about the control system, not the gearbox.

So it is Magneti Marelli for the Selespeed and all the other original paddle-shift boxes.
Which for BMW was SMG.

 

Thanks David


So..........Ferrari cars have the same selespeed problems as Alfa i suppose?:cheese:

 

from a recent thread, i think its at the end of the 'sticky' selespeed thread..... apparently its the SAME physical size but made STRONGER.... read the last few posts for more info

 

They certainly have a fair bit (at least in the F355 and F360), and so do Maserati with the cambiocorsa.

@David: got it! :thumbs:

 

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-147-156-and-gt/59454-selespeed-info-11.html

last post.....

 

I can tell from experience that Ferrari with paddle shift uses the Bosch ME 3.1 eobd, the same as in the Alfa's with paddle shift. Difference is in the software , the Ferrari modification allows for a much faster shift speed (resulting in big bangs in the transmission) Ferrrari owners are used to much higher bills than we poorly Alfa sods a 10.000 km service for a 430 costs 2200 euro...

 

Ferrari owners/rich men don't care about these 'pea-nuts'(bill):lol:

 

The systems are very similar....

The Ferrari 360 and Alfa Romeo 156 GTA Selespeed use the following same components..

Solenoid Valves...
Pump (mine died this morning, and i am running an F360 pump in my GTA now, so i know it's the same, and it works)
Accumulator Bottle/Vessel

The ECU's are both made by magnetti marelli..

Here are some drawings for you guys .....

No. 1 is the system from a 156 GTA/147 GTA Selespeed
No. 2 is the system on an F 360
No. 3 is the system on an F 360
No. 4 is the system on an F 430
No. 5 is the system on a 156/147 2.0 TS

Same company Same parts bin... less R&D costs, less Tooling Costs...

p.s. the cost of the full actuator (Ferrari Part Number 179533) set up as shown is about $5,000 from my various enquiries

In the Ferrari System, there are 6 Solenoid Valves... in the GTA's there are 5 and they have the same part numbers... unfortunately for Ferrari, their owners have to buy the full actuator/no separate parts, Fiat however sells the accumulator/vessel separately, and the pumps are also sold separately by Alfa..

There are two types of pumps, a sealed unit and one which can be opened and fiddled with..seals replaced etc...

I know for a fact from mechanics in SA, that Ferrari's do have problems with their actuators , cos of the teflon seals inside wearing out. In South Africa, there's a machine shop in Johannesburg that reconditions the actuators by replacing the seals and changing the metal shaft in the actuator to stainless steel. This makes it more durable and lasts longer..

In have also heard of mechanics soldering the connectors, to the harness, cos these always comes loose and cause problems...

 

Is it possible to find/buy the selespeed actuator seals from these South African guys?

 

The guys name is Chris van der Merwe, he's based in Boksburg, Johannesburg and he runs a shop called Alfa Omega.. You can call him on + 27 11 918 7724 or +27 11 918 4435.. he's a super chap and very helpful..

He told me that he can either use your damaged actuator, or the many damaged ones he has on hand at his workshop and recondition it and replace the shaft and all the seals at the cost of ZAR 6,000 and the accumulator, you can buy directly from Fiat and the part number's 71751195 (Vessel is the name in Fiat's system...)

Cheers Senna and pm me if you need to know more...

 

Thanks Stephen......is there any web site for this guy?

 

Awesome diagrams, they're a big help for Sele owners

Reading the latest Evo review of the Ferrari California, I was struck by how much smoother and faster the new double-clutch box seemed compared to the Selespeed system. Apparently you'd have trouble moving off after a cold start with a paddle-shift F430, revs bouncing around, clutch going in and out, generally making progress jerky - just like on my (much cheaper) 147 Sele No such issues with the California though. I wonder why Seles have to be warmed up a bit before moving off.

 

Stephen Manjai is bang on.

Actually the BMW SMG system is the only one NOT manufactured by Magneti Marelli, it is manufactured under license FROM Marelli by VDO Siemens, but the technology of all these systems is identical.

Remember that these are all designed to operate on existing manual gearboxes, including Fiat (Stilo/Alfa), Graziano (e.g Ferrari/ Aston) and Getrag (e.g BMW) even Aisin (Lexus - albeit it never went into production) Albeit ratios are made to suit the SSpeed, unless you have a Vanquish, which has a tall 1st gear thus despite over 20 software re-writes, it still eats the clutch when parking or hill starting

They are all effectively the same but with different casings, valves and pump accumulator systems to suit.

As David said, the first - the F355 has to use the idle actuator for the throttle, hence these got way better when fly by wire throttle bodies became more affordable

 

this might sound like a really "cowboy" idea, but given the fact that the speed of shift is down to software, could the alfa sele not be remapped to provide a slightly swifter shift, to the same effect as fitting a shortshift lever in a manual?

i do mean a slightly swifter shift, not so fast as to "bang" through the transmission.

 

Not sure about Alfa, but there is a tuner that has cracked the Maserati cambiocorsa and whose product I've got and it's fantastic

Essentially it's a piggy back ECU that optimises the clutch engagement and throttle response. The car's probably gained 0.5" in the 0-100kmh. Amazing!

 

It can be calibrated to shift faster, but as far as I know, outwith Marelli and Bosch, no one has cracked the source code.

In reality it shifts slowly enough to make sure that differences in engine, transmisson, clutch and actuator dont cause malfunctions and as the Alfa is a mass produced car and isnt road tested like a Ferrari, it slower too.

If you had the right gadget (and no one I now of outwith the OEM has)you could get the car shifting faster as its unlikely that that all the parameters on any one car are the worst scenario its designed for.

...but I would warn that the casings are cracking on 156's and this NEVER happened in development and it WILL eat the clutch and use more fuel because of the way it works.

If some of these tuners could be arsed, I'm sure they could re-write the software, in fact there have been a few updates since these cars were introduced as these are on any fully updated Examiner System to download via the OBD port, this includes re-timings, some up, some down, depending on revs, gear, calculated load and if on part throttle and warmed up - emmissions.

 

hmm.. wonder how i would find out what version is on mine, and whether the timing for one gear in particular coud be altered..

cheers for the info

 

it would be a good product to market alongside an engine ecu remap if it could be done over here, as long as the extra wear on the cluch didnt mean "excessive" extra wear.

 

Autodelta.... hint hint... come on Jano..!!

Guess if anyone can crack the Marelli ecu it would have to be Jano...

 

The piggy back really isnt breaking the code, its an intercept system.

I'm not sure there is a market for it on the Alfa, most owners are pre-occupied with reliability.

 

I'm not sure there is a market for it on the Alfa, most owners are pre-occupied with reliability.

:cheese: :cheese:

 

is there one available to look at/trial?

 

I've never had a problem with the shift speed of my Selespeed, it shifts fast enough when you drive it properly.

Most of the headline shift speeds that you see for other systems are not the shift speeds you would use day-to-day anyway. They are the systems that have say 7 different shift speeds to choose from and they even tell you that using the fastest shift speeds will damage the gearbox...

 

true, but then if individual gear shift speeds could be adjusted, it could at least improve my lazy 3rd gear. that and improve the shift down from 2nd to first.

 

When was the unit last calibrated - that may be your issue.

What year is your car? if prior to 2002, has it had the campain update software?

 

I have a Ferrari 355 and need the EV4 valve. From what I have gathered it is the same as that on the 156 Selespeed; however, I have struck out on finding the correct part number. Does anybody know it and/or where I might be able to find one? The Ferrari valve is not stocked anywhere in the US (as they never sold it outside of the complete power unit) and my dealer had to order one from Italy, which is no sure thing we ever get one. If anyone can help me out I'd be eternaly grateful.

 

Have you tried EuroSpares?
http://www.eurospares.co.uk/partTable.asp?M=1&Mo=692&A=1&B=41076

I guess you have but thought I'd double check.