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I would seriously recommend that if anyone has put a deposit down on a 4C they are considering to ask for it back. There is no scheduled build dates at the moment and therefore no build slots. Some dealers have been taking £500 deposits but this has not been recognised by Alfa UK or Italy.


And some have been taking £1000 http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-4c/276577-deposits.html




As I already said elsewhere it seem some UK Dealers are showing some initiative :thumbs:


I wonder what interest rates they are getting on those deposit accounts ;)

What I said ;)
 

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I would seriously recommend that if anyone has put a deposit down on a 4C they are considering to ask for it back. There is no scheduled build dates at the moment and therefore no build slots. Some dealers have been taking £500 deposits but this has not been recognised by Alfa UK or Italy.
Ouch, i'd be looking very closely at who my contract to buy with is right now.
 

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dealers have reported it up to Alfa UK, and issued 'held in trust' letters, so that would put the cash claim at the top of any heap for insolvency (should the dealer go bust because, for instance *alfa cancelled all the other models*)

mmmm, might have to ask for it back then
 
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why are people already slating the Pentastar? - ridiculous!
Not slating it, questioning how well it will be received. After the whole GM tie up issue with those engines getting slagged off, I can imagine many Alfisti in Europe will feel negative about it. The Pentastar is supposed to be a good engine, but could I get excited about it in an Alfa? I'm not sure I could, but I am a complete Alfa nerd so heritage matters to me. But I think most US buyers won't care and might even see it as a plus. The US is the market they are going after anyway.

But the reality is (as we have said on other threads), we will never see an "Alfa only" engine ever again anyway, so it's the best we will get.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

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The "169" will have RWD and come in 2014. And likely have lots of power. The Busso will never come back. A 3.5 L Pentastar V6 with multiair and maybe a turbo, doesn't have to be bad. And it will be driven to the rear wheels! I like the sound of my Busso, but I agree, don't dismiss the Pentastar before it's been put in an Alfa.
 

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Fiat is making harmful decisions about its other divisions, not just Alfa.

The Toronto Star said:
Fiat to kill unpopular Dodge Caliber and Dakota

While Italy’s Fiat is still in the midst of revamping its Chrysler Group product plans with all-new and thoroughly refreshed products after taking over the bankrupt U.S. automaker two years ago, two existing Chrysler Group models are heading off to pasture.

Plagued with cheap-feeling interiors and unsophisticated drivetrains from Day One, production of the Dodge Caliber four-door hatchback will be phased out by the end of November, according to a report from the Chrysler enthusiast Web site, Allpar.com. This comes only five years after it replaced the popular Neon compact.

Fiat has already announced that the Caliber replacement will be based on a North American-exclusive “wide-body” version of the automaker’s existing Alfa Romeo Giulietta compact. But that new model isn’t expected until late 2012 at the earliest, leaving Dodge with no entry before then in Canada’s best-selling passenger car segment.
Ford
Now that was from a couple of weeks ago, so I suspect the reality will be even worse what with the recent delays, announcements, etc.

As for Alfa, I don't think they have a clue what they're doing.

In this link, I cited numbers saying that in only a few months, Fiat put over 8,000 500s on the road in the U.S. but in the press release post by PR about the 4C look at the numbers Fiat proposed for Alfa.

PR quoting PR said:
Alfa plans to build 15,000 to 20,000 units of the 4C coupe over five years, two people familiar to the matter told Automotive News Europe.

Another 5,000 to 10,000 units of a roadster version of the 4C will be built for Abarth, the sources said. Abarth is Fiat's sporty sub brand that markets high-performance versions of the Fiat 500 minicar and Punto subcompact.
There is no way you can re-enter the U.S. market and serve all of Europe, not to mention the rest of the world, when producing such low numbers. Now I know this is just for one model, but still, it doesn't make economic sense. Now with the news of the the most recent set of delays, who knows what future production numbers will be, but still it doesn't seem like a smart way to run a business.
--Toronto
 

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One side of a phone conversation (in the style of Bob Newhart):

Hello, Ferdi, it's me! Ive got an offer for you! Remember...

What? It's me! Sergio!

Err, no. Marchionne.

Oh, right, sorry, Mr Piech. Sir.

So, as I was saying, I think it's time we talked about Alfa...

What do you mean you're a bit busy? Listen, I'm serious. 20 billion Euros and it's yours!

Did I say something funny?

OK, well no harm in asking, eh? How about 2 billion?

No, billion, not million.

Err, that's YOU pay ME...

Oh, I see.

What's that? You're having trouble with your Porsche and Suzie's just kicked you in the nuts?

Oh, Suzuki, right. Hey, they're not so bad! I've just sold them a bunch of diesel engines and...

Oh, I see. Sorry about that, Ferdi, I mean Mr Piech. Sir. So, about Alfa...

What? Do I want to swap for Seat? Hell, no! I'm trying to get rid of liabilities!

Yes, I've got to go, too. Nice talking to you, anyway Fer... Mr Piech. Sir. My offer...

Hello? Hello?

Hmmm... we must have got cut off.

(turns to PA) Bugger! I thought he really wanted it, too. Who else needs a nice badge? Have you got Hyundai's number?

PA: No, but they've certainly got YOUR number.
 

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like somebody said earlier, alfa will never again get an engine all of its own - they'll all be FPT or GM derived ones like the pentastar. it's a shame but it's just the way it is. small volume doesn't work in the car industry any more unless you're making an uber-premium product like ferrari/pagani/lamborghini and making huuuuuuuge profit margins

but personally if an engine sounds good and goes well then i like it, heritage or no heritage. history is nice, speed & noise is better :thumbs:
 
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like somebody said earlier, alfa will never again get an engine all of its own - they'll all be FPT or GM derived ones like the pentastar. it's a shame but it's just the way it is. small volume doesn't work in the car industry any more unless you're making an uber-premium product like ferrari/pagani/lamborghini and making huuuuuuuge profit margins

but personally if an engine sounds good and goes well then i like it, heritage or no heritage. history is nice, speed & noise is better :thumbs:
I guess so. If they make it sound nice, handle well and it looks great, we have to consider it.
 

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Around 70% of an engine's characteristics are derived in the cylinder head and Alfa ALWAYS have their way with cylinder heads used in their cars.
Yes, the current V6 was a bit weak in comparison to the Busso. But what engine wouldn't be?!
 

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Didn't one of the official pdf's also refer to the 169 being on the Maserati platform, not the Chrysler? Even if it has the Pentastar V6 it could be a very good concoction. I'm not sure of their engine names but I'm assuming that the Pentastar is the almost brand new one Chrysler just started making in that new factory. It could be great with multi air and Alfa heads.
 

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Around 70% of an engine's characteristics are derived in the cylinder head and Alfa ALWAYS have their way with cylinder heads used in their cars.
Yes, the current V6 was a bit weak in comparison to the Busso. But what engine wouldn't be?!
It is flattering to think that Alfa Romeo get their own way with engine development within the Fiat Group, but in reality they get what they are given.
If you examine the specifications of the 1.9 16valve 150 hp diesel, you will see that Opel/Vauxhall, Saab and Alfa Romeo all quote exactly the same bhp and torque figures - so even IF AR get a little badge on the castings it points to the engines being identical.
 

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according to Italian newspapers it seems that the dismission of 159 production line has been cancelled and will keep on going on the old 147/GT lines (the 159 is being replaced in favour of the Panda lines).
Where did you read this? Do you have any links?
 

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why do soooo many of you want a rear wheel drive saloon/estate car:confused:
BMW and Merc's have these already and "control the market"
Driving around Northamptons stock car race track today in the "fine British weather" I longed for my Sud/Sprint/147 or 156:cool:
I'd have got the best lap time too:cool:
Yes when it comes to "super cars" rear wheel dirve seems "the norm" but ANYBODY can drive a front wheel drive car, and lets ALL face it Alfa's are now "everyday" cars when Fiat have mazzer's and ferria's why bother with another rear wheel drive:confused:
I must state that I am not a "lover" of the chrysler involvement for the engines, I think if Ford or VW bought them the "Style" would also go and for me that would mean the end.
The other problem is that like sooooo many of us I wouldn't buy a NEW Alfa now due to the depresation that happens in the first 3 years ( I estimate I lost £7000 in 2 years on my 156 GTA).
Alfa need BETTER dealerships for a start:rant:
There are a FEW long time ones around but soooo many are "NEW" staffed with people with NO IDEA what a Alfa is, even what a internal combustion engine is unless the PC tells them:wow:
Perhaps Fiat should bring back the 70,s and 80's Alfa range all be it with more saftey features so that us "old ones" can buy the body panels to restore ours:cheese:
 

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why do soooo many of you want a rear wheel drive saloon/estate car:confused:
BMW and Merc's have these already and "control the market"
Rear wheel drive is better when you have a lot of engine power. And more fun. No torque steer. And customers want it. A RWD model will be able to sell to customers that otherwise would have bought BMW.

Alfa could make a M5 competitor model. Imagine a turbocharged 400hp+ special edition. That just won't happen with FWD.

I don't plan to buy a new one, but I would like to see Alfa succeed with such a car and have to option to buy a used one after some years on the market.
 

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Alfa could make a M5 competitor model. Imagine a turbocharged 400hp+ special edition. That just won't happen with FWD.
Given the CO2 rules fining car companies for failing to meet targets (with Fiat having stiffer targets than BMW), wonder if Fiat could afford to let Alfa build such a car.

All the best

Keith
 
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Personally speaking I want a replacement for the 156 GTA, a sporty compact sports saloon or coupe (a new "GT" would suit me). Don't care if it's RWD or FWD, I agree with the comments on that - if RWD is so good, why don't the RWD in the BTCC pi** all over the FWD ones? FWD has its advantages and you can run 400bhp through a FWD car, several GTA owners have done that. My car (at approaching 300bhp) has hardly any torque steer. It's purely a personal preference but I will say that the supposed "stigma" of FWD means that for any premium sporty model it will have to be RWD to attract the right buyers. FWIW I would buy brand new for the right car, but it would have to be the right car.

Alfa will never make an M-series competitor, they do not have the resources to compete with BMW's M division. But they can create things that are different and appeal to the Alfa buyer - like the 4C.

Cheers,

Nigel
 

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I would buy brand new for the right car, but it would have to be the right car.

Alfa will never make an M-series competitor, they do not have the resources to compete with BMW's M division. But they can create things that are different and appeal to the Alfa buyer - like the 4C.

Cheers,

Nigel
This is true. The closest thing in terms of modern cars that would be deemed to be the AMG of Mercs or M of BMW's was the GTA. However the specs matched a 330, rather then a M3. Alfa wont produce M-Series competitors for two reasons. Firstly because as you mentioned Alfa simply dont have the resources. Secondly it wouldn't sell in the numbers of the German competitors. Even Audi struggle to sell (in Australia) S series cars as oposed to the amount of M's and AMG's on the road. It wouldnt be profitable for Alfa, which is the main aim of FGA.

In addition, the only people that would purchase these elite Alfa's are Alfisti. You wouldn't convert the conservative types to pick a high performance Merc or Beema to an Alfa. Not too many anyways.

Salute, Giordano.
 

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Reading between the lines of that revised schedule, and various other recent reports and articles relating to Fiat, I would say that the reason for the delays is quite simple: Fiat just do not have the money for the development of new Alfa models at the moment.

Therefore it seems quite strange to me that they seem so committed to turning the 4C concept into a production car; A high-cost, low volume niche product unlikely to generate any serious profit. But I have seen something similar before: anybody remember th MG XPower SV?
 
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