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Hi folks,
The time has come for me to part ways with my 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf. The thing is, I don't really know what it's worth? There aren't any 12V Cloverleaf cars for sale in the UK for comparison purposes, but from what I've seen a nice 24V Cloverleaf fetches around £4-6k while there's currently several Twin Spark cars for sale around the £2.5 to £3.5k mark. The last 12V Cloverleaf I saw for sale was a white car earlier this year, which had been stored (so no MOT) and needed some work to see it back on the road. This car was up for £3495 if I recall.
First things first: my car is not a concours example. On the outside it's a bit shabby - lacquer peel on several panels, various different shades of red, and so on (the usual issues with Alfa Rosso cars). It has also suffered from the usual rust in the rear arches where the back of the arch meets the rear bumper. The inside is better, though the seats do have a little bit of wear showing (could perhaps do with a re-dye). The car drives nicely, still pulls as it should, but is not perfect by any means. I'll try to list all the key information below and post some pictures too.
Key facts
>1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
>New MOT to June 2017
>Owned by me since June 2012, it was parked behind a barn in a sorry state and needed significant work to return it to the road. 5 former keepers. It returned to the road in December 2013.
>171,969 miles (though the speedometer and odometer hasn't worked since I've owned it - I honestly reckon I've only covered around 700 miles in the car as it has only really been used for the occasional show or errand run, and one trip to north Wales.)
>Part service history - I've kept as many receipts and invoices as possible and all the MOTs during my ownership, but have very little from before then.
>Needs cosmetic attention - it has the typical Alfa red paint fade and lacquer peel on most panels
>Has suffered from rust in the usual areas - rear subframe (I can supply a spare), rear arches, bottom of the boot floor, a bit in the scuttle area on the N/S
>17" Selespeed wheels with good tyres
>Drives nicely all things considered - still pulls as it should, and the noise will always put a smile on your face.
>Electronic suspension adjustment doesn't work (what a surprise!)
>A couple of the gauges don't work properly. The water temp warning light is usually on while driving, despite the gauge itself showing the temp to be fine. The oil pressure gauge doesn't work, but a previous owner installed an external gauge in the cabin; pressure is around 60psi at cold idle, and 20psi at warm idle.
>Leaks oil from the front cylinder head - assumed to be the cam cover gasket.
>The car is fitted with stainless tubular manifolds - however they both require some small patches of weld on them as they leak slightly. I only discovered this once they had been fitted, but taking them off and re-welding them is a big job! For now they are patched with sealing paste but this won't last.
>Standard downpipes and centre pipe, CSC twin tip backbox. Gives a nice burble.
>Rear suspension (particularly the springs) looks rather rusty to me, though the garage has never mentioned it at MOT time and they still seem to perform OK.
>Rust along the top of the windscreen.
In the last 6 months it's had (from memory)
>New (refurbished) injectors X6 (Bosch EV6 quad-stream injectors, upgraded from the original single-stream EV1 injectors)
>New intake runner upper (rubber) and lower (gasket) seals
>New throttle position switch
>New rear brake calipers and pads, and 1x new rear brake hose (N/S) and fresh brake fluid
>New Valeo ignition coil (replaced while fault-finding - old one presumably still works)
>Various fuel hoses in the engine bay replaced with correct 7.5mm hose
>Motronic relay wiring repaired to fix shorting issue
>Complete oil change with Shell Helix 10w40
>New fuel filter with new bolts and washers
>New fuel pump supply and return pipe rubber O-rings - correct Alfa part, cost me £40 for four O-rings!
During my ownership I've also replaced (in no particular order):
>Clutch (Valeo 3 piece kit)
>Timing belt and tensioner and auxiliary belts (early 2013 if memory serves, so will be 3 years old now)
>Front shock absorbers for a pair of used electronic units with new swivel bearings and springs
>Front brake calipers and pads
>Brake discs all round (slotted and dimpled)
>Brake pipes have been replaced all round for copper pipes
>6X NGK Iridium BPR6EIX spark plugs
>Cam cover gaskets and cylinder head gaskets
>Brake compensator valve
>Clutch slave cylinder hose (and removed dampener at same time)
>Removed the engine in 2012 to find it full of age-related gunk and the water ways almost blocked - took it apart and cleaned it out, replacing various parts along the way including seals, one of the camshafts (excessive pitting on the lobes) and a cylinder liner (had a very small crack).
>Replaced worn original steering wheel with period Momo wheel and boss kit.
>Replaced all seats due to wear/rodent damage.
>Replaced dashboard central heater vent (broken adjusters on the old one)
>new Thermostat and gaskets
>new Coolant temperature sender
>new small coolant hoses between cylinder heads and the thermostat housing
>new Crank sensor
>new distributor rotor arm and housing (original unit had a crack in the casting).
So it's far from perfect, but at the end of the day it's still a very rare car that's still in one piece and runs and drives nicely, but I'm honest in describing it as 'needing work'. It's by no means a show winner, and the cosmetic issues are what let it down most in my opinion. I feel a bit ill after going through the history I've amassed for it, and seeing how much I've spent keeping this slightly tired example alive. But it's time for someone else to care for it, and I will be truly disappointed to see it go - but it has to really! The sale will fund the finishing touches for the car that will replace it; my Alfa 164 Q4.
So...back to the original question: what do you guys reckon it's worth? I'd rather not break it either so please nobody ask for parts!
The time has come for me to part ways with my 1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf. The thing is, I don't really know what it's worth? There aren't any 12V Cloverleaf cars for sale in the UK for comparison purposes, but from what I've seen a nice 24V Cloverleaf fetches around £4-6k while there's currently several Twin Spark cars for sale around the £2.5 to £3.5k mark. The last 12V Cloverleaf I saw for sale was a white car earlier this year, which had been stored (so no MOT) and needed some work to see it back on the road. This car was up for £3495 if I recall.
First things first: my car is not a concours example. On the outside it's a bit shabby - lacquer peel on several panels, various different shades of red, and so on (the usual issues with Alfa Rosso cars). It has also suffered from the usual rust in the rear arches where the back of the arch meets the rear bumper. The inside is better, though the seats do have a little bit of wear showing (could perhaps do with a re-dye). The car drives nicely, still pulls as it should, but is not perfect by any means. I'll try to list all the key information below and post some pictures too.
Key facts
>1991 Alfa 164 3.0 Cloverleaf
>New MOT to June 2017
>Owned by me since June 2012, it was parked behind a barn in a sorry state and needed significant work to return it to the road. 5 former keepers. It returned to the road in December 2013.
>171,969 miles (though the speedometer and odometer hasn't worked since I've owned it - I honestly reckon I've only covered around 700 miles in the car as it has only really been used for the occasional show or errand run, and one trip to north Wales.)
>Part service history - I've kept as many receipts and invoices as possible and all the MOTs during my ownership, but have very little from before then.
>Needs cosmetic attention - it has the typical Alfa red paint fade and lacquer peel on most panels
>Has suffered from rust in the usual areas - rear subframe (I can supply a spare), rear arches, bottom of the boot floor, a bit in the scuttle area on the N/S
>17" Selespeed wheels with good tyres
>Drives nicely all things considered - still pulls as it should, and the noise will always put a smile on your face.
>Electronic suspension adjustment doesn't work (what a surprise!)
>A couple of the gauges don't work properly. The water temp warning light is usually on while driving, despite the gauge itself showing the temp to be fine. The oil pressure gauge doesn't work, but a previous owner installed an external gauge in the cabin; pressure is around 60psi at cold idle, and 20psi at warm idle.
>Leaks oil from the front cylinder head - assumed to be the cam cover gasket.
>The car is fitted with stainless tubular manifolds - however they both require some small patches of weld on them as they leak slightly. I only discovered this once they had been fitted, but taking them off and re-welding them is a big job! For now they are patched with sealing paste but this won't last.
>Standard downpipes and centre pipe, CSC twin tip backbox. Gives a nice burble.
>Rear suspension (particularly the springs) looks rather rusty to me, though the garage has never mentioned it at MOT time and they still seem to perform OK.
>Rust along the top of the windscreen.
In the last 6 months it's had (from memory)
>New (refurbished) injectors X6 (Bosch EV6 quad-stream injectors, upgraded from the original single-stream EV1 injectors)
>New intake runner upper (rubber) and lower (gasket) seals
>New throttle position switch
>New rear brake calipers and pads, and 1x new rear brake hose (N/S) and fresh brake fluid
>New Valeo ignition coil (replaced while fault-finding - old one presumably still works)
>Various fuel hoses in the engine bay replaced with correct 7.5mm hose
>Motronic relay wiring repaired to fix shorting issue
>Complete oil change with Shell Helix 10w40
>New fuel filter with new bolts and washers
>New fuel pump supply and return pipe rubber O-rings - correct Alfa part, cost me £40 for four O-rings!
During my ownership I've also replaced (in no particular order):
>Clutch (Valeo 3 piece kit)
>Timing belt and tensioner and auxiliary belts (early 2013 if memory serves, so will be 3 years old now)
>Front shock absorbers for a pair of used electronic units with new swivel bearings and springs
>Front brake calipers and pads
>Brake discs all round (slotted and dimpled)
>Brake pipes have been replaced all round for copper pipes
>6X NGK Iridium BPR6EIX spark plugs
>Cam cover gaskets and cylinder head gaskets
>Brake compensator valve
>Clutch slave cylinder hose (and removed dampener at same time)
>Removed the engine in 2012 to find it full of age-related gunk and the water ways almost blocked - took it apart and cleaned it out, replacing various parts along the way including seals, one of the camshafts (excessive pitting on the lobes) and a cylinder liner (had a very small crack).
>Replaced worn original steering wheel with period Momo wheel and boss kit.
>Replaced all seats due to wear/rodent damage.
>Replaced dashboard central heater vent (broken adjusters on the old one)
>new Thermostat and gaskets
>new Coolant temperature sender
>new small coolant hoses between cylinder heads and the thermostat housing
>new Crank sensor
>new distributor rotor arm and housing (original unit had a crack in the casting).
So it's far from perfect, but at the end of the day it's still a very rare car that's still in one piece and runs and drives nicely, but I'm honest in describing it as 'needing work'. It's by no means a show winner, and the cosmetic issues are what let it down most in my opinion. I feel a bit ill after going through the history I've amassed for it, and seeing how much I've spent keeping this slightly tired example alive. But it's time for someone else to care for it, and I will be truly disappointed to see it go - but it has to really! The sale will fund the finishing touches for the car that will replace it; my Alfa 164 Q4.
So...back to the original question: what do you guys reckon it's worth? I'd rather not break it either so please nobody ask for parts!
