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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, looking for some advice before I pull 2 engines apart for no reason.
I recently bought a 159 1.9 jtdm on a 2007 year. It was advertised as running well until dpf light came on now a bit low on power, I thought fair enough, it's over 100 miles drive home so I can regen it on the way back and take it from there.
The owner quite proudly told me he'd fitted a new egr valve all by himself!
Performance didn't improve much by the time I'd got home, nothing low down and the boost, although was there was a bit limp/vague.
After looking at the egr valve, I found he'd stripped the threads in the inlet manifold and sealed it up with liquid metal, the map sensor was hanging out, again stripped thread, boost pipe wasn't all the way in or bolted on properly, so a bit of messing and a few helicoils later it was back together.
Better but still gutless. So up to now I have swapped egr valve for a genuine one as his was a cheapy aftermarket one which I don't trust, map sensor and boost solenoid from a working car, maf sensor disconnected, no difference so reconnected...anyway I'll get to the point in the end.
Whilst the engine is running I can feel a slight cold air blow from somewhere on the inlet manifold, below and slightly left of the egr valve as you're looking at it. There are traces of sealent/liquid metal again under here although impossible to see, I had to take a video with my phone then look at the footage.
I'll assume he overtightened something and probably cracked it somewhere, I was going to remove it eventually anyway as I've no idea if it still has swirl flaps and if it dies, then take them out.
I do have though a spare 1.9 jtd from a 156 with the metal intake manifold, can this be fitted to the 159 or is it an involved job requiring butchery?
Any ideas or sensible suggestions will be appreciated.
 

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The metal manifold will fit straight on to the 159, the early cars had the metal with swirl valves manifold, it has to be a 16v one though, and the 156 will be a straight no swirl valve manifold.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for that, it's been such a faff getting the one off the spare engine though I don't think I'll be bothering just yet. Managed to get it running reasonably nicely now so I'll wait until it starts playing up again. That little tab on the end of the inlet manifold looks like it was deliberately put there just to make the job a million times harder, can't even get a tool in to lop it off. Even after drilling a chunk of the timing cover off it still doesn't want to go.
 

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If I was you I would have that manifold off ASAP and either remove swirls or fit your other manifold. They are a ticking time bomb,I ended up having recon head and turbo on mine as it ingested some flaps.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I've not tried removing the manifold from the 159 yet but there is no way the one from the 156 engine is coming off without either removing the timing cover (the cast bit not the plastic outer cover) or cutting/drilling/filing away at either the end of the inlet manifold or the cover itself. I have removed the hp pump and the stud that fouls. Does the plastic manifold from a 159 engine come off with less trouble then? I didn't want to start with that one until I have found a way of getting it all apart on the spares engine first. Also, is there any way of seeing if it has had the swirl flaps already removed previously without having to take it all apart?
 

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I seem to recall when I did mine I had the HP pump off with the bracket/rear timing cover but I was doing head at same time. This made it easy to get manifold out.
Unfortunately only way to tell with plastic manifold is to take it off as all the mechanism is internal except the motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
So, the manifold is now off the spare engine, ended up having to also remove a manifold stud with grips as there's not enough thread to get 2 nuts on and it was still a squeeze. Is there an easier way of doing this without taking the inner timing cover off or is there more clearence on the plastic manifold engines? I don't really want to go down the same route with the engine I'm planning on using as there is the potential for all manners of crap ending up in the inlet ports.
I'm planning on doing it this weekend providing the weather holds off.
Also, the car is now running better some of the time, when it's first started there is no boost for about a mile or so then it seems to either go about as well as my saab (with the same engine) or go like the clappers. I took it on a motorway blast yesterday to try and clear it through a bit, but this doesn't seem to have made much difference. Even when it has warmed up, the boost is unpredictable. The boost guage does spin round but its almost like its not getting to the engine. There are no leaks on the boost pipes so maybe it's not always chucking in the required fuel? Any guesses? Anyone?
 

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If you're talking about separating intake from the block, then yes - it usually requires removing timing cover, timing belt and also high pressure fuel pump (at least on metal intakes).

I believe the reading for boost gauge comes from a MAP sensor in the intake - it should read ~1,5 bar (and hold it) on full throttle. If you have the pressure in the manifold, then turbo part is doing it's job as expected. You may have some overboost issues because of faulty actuator (vacuum leaks, actuator rod sticking) or sticky turbo vanes.

Your diesel injectors also may require cleaning and adjustment already.

There is a lot of guesswork here - better to hook up a diag software and monitor parameters.
 

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No need to remove timing belt....just the pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
So is the inner timing cover on a 159 different to the one on a 156? I'll find out tomorrow anyway I suppose but on the 156 engine, other than divise a way of removing the actual manifold studs whilst the manifold is still in situ, I can't find any possible way of getting the manifold off without either removing the inner timing cover or cutting a great big notch in it. If it's just the pump and the one stud then it should be simple enough (that was probably a stupid thing to say) as I've done a few pumps on these engines due to leakage.
The metal manifold is now cleaned and raring to go!
 

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Annual?? Seems a bit excessive....mine is ten years and 155000 miles old......still not enough tar it if for me to justify stripping it down!! Even the one above does not have enough in the important places (ports, inlet) to impede air flow enough to worry about.....especially on a turbocharged car where its not so important.
 

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As a 159 JTDm owner (75k miles) I'd like to ask if it's worth removing swirl flap system and if so, do you have to plug any holes or modify manifold before refitting?

Also if HP fuel pump has to come off, is there some sort of bleed process required before startup?
 

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Yes definitely worth removing them. They can and do fail at any time.

They're self bleeding.

You will need to drill, tap and fit cap head bolts after removing the spindles. Use permanent locktite on them.
 

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As above get rid they are a ticking time bomb.
Starting after just needs the electric pump priming a few times and a bit of cranking
 
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