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Hi all, out of interest, has anyone looking into turbo charging their 159 JTS (3.2 more specifically) in a remote setup configuration? I've been doing a lot of reading recently regarding remote turbo setups and because of the exhaust header positions of the 159 v6, a remote setup would be much easier in my opinion. Any one done it? Any one thought of it? Any one gone turbo in another way? Any thoughts?
 

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A turbo has been fitted on a South African car ( Brera 3.2 ) there is a thread about it somewhere online.


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I cant be much help but be aware that remote turbos can have massive lag compared to a turbo where it should be...as close to the exhaust manifold and intake pipe as possible. A friend bought an old Mustang with a Turbo that was pretty much by the rear axle! Lag was laughable. Removed it and fitted higher compression slugs and all was good. This is not his (obviously) but the setup was much the same.
 

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Hi all, out of interest, has anyone looking into turbo charging their 159 JTS (3.2 more specifically) in a remote setup configuration? I've been doing a lot of reading recently regarding remote turbo setups and because of the exhaust header positions of the 159 v6, a remote setup would be much easier in my opinion. Any one done it? Any one thought of it? Any one gone turbo in another way? Any thoughts?
Better off fitting a SAAB or Vauxhall 2.8 Turbo engine. I have seen them brand new for under £2k. The timing is all wrong on the JTS and the engine already cooks with the manifold cats. One can't make a "Silk Purse out of this Pig's Ear", without major engineering work. So why pretend!
 

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@alfaromeo939s in a track car the heat aspect advantages would be very good going with a remote setup from the info I have seen, also regarding the mentioned lag, as you would be spending most of your time in the upper rev range anyway, lag wouldn't be that noticeable
I am really interested in this as these remote turbo setups can run up to 200degrees cooler then engine bay setups, and not add any extra heat to your engine bay, the charged air is cooled along the length of the piping running back to the intake with all the cool air passing over it under the car.

Regarding lag as mentioned, appropriate turbo sizing and new ball bearing technology can elimate a lot of the perceived lag, and in my instance, as the car is a road car, the dual personality or driving normally and having little turbo spool or boost, then having the extra power and punch when you are pushing past 4000-4500rpm is fine. Normal power under normal conditions and a big extra punch when you are pushing it in the last few Krpms when you are having fun
That is my though
 

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@alfaromeo939s in a track car the heat aspect advantages would be very good going with a remote setup from the info I have seen, also regarding the mentioned lag, as you would be spending most of your time in the upper rev range anyway, lag wouldn't be that noticeable
I am really interested in this as these remote turbo setups can run up to 200degrees cooler then engine bay setups, and not add any extra heat to your engine bay, the charged air is cooled along the length of the piping running back to the intake with all the cool air passing over it under the car.

Regarding lag as mentioned, appropriate turbo sizing and new ball bearing technology can elimate a lot of the perceived lag, and in my instance, as the car is a road car, the dual personality or driving normally and having little turbo spool or boost, then having the extra power and punch when you are pushing past 4000-4500rpm is fine. Normal power under normal conditions and a big extra punch when you are pushing it in the last few Krpms when you are having fun
That is my though

"in a track car the heat aspect advantages would be very good going with a remote setup from the info I have seen," - evidence please.

I am not talking about the length of your pipe work acting as an inter-cooler, more the fact that the whole purpose of Supercharging and Turbo charging is to increase the Volumetric Efficiency of the engine. With that come increased upper cylinder temperatures. The gases discharged on a power stroke, hit a brick wall; metaphorically speaking, that is the manifold cats. The net effect is to reflect a considerable amount of it back to the cylinder heads. They are deliberately designed to get the temperature of the engine up quickly to deal with emissions - that it doesn't work very well is a separate issue.

One cannot even use optimum valve timing as the Static Timing of this engine; if the e-disc is correct, gives a NVO (Negative Valve Overlap). Inlet Valve opening at 11.5 degrees After TDC and the Exhaust Valve closes at 9 degree After TDC. 1.5 degrees where all four valves are closed.

So there is no cooling element created by the forced air passing from inlet to exhaust No valve overlap. Now that will not be the case at every position the ECU has chosen to set the VVT angles, but it is less than optimum - right across the engines rev range. It is a crazy idea, particularly given how poorly this engine performs in standard guise.

Not giving confidences away, but having spoken at great length with Autodelta, Jano informed me when doing tests on their turbo version after work, their Manifolds were glowing red. On that basis, I would predict the catalytic converters would quickly destroy themselves. And if coil packs are burning out now because of elevated temperatures, they would be unlikely to survive very long either.

Best put some shinny wheels on it and some go faster stripes.
 

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If Sizewell's right for once and there is NVO then this is a good thing on a turbo'd engine, so you're on the right track with forced induction. Getting any heat away will always be beneficial so the remote setup looks like a good solution (although maybe not as far away as the Mustang picture ..)
 

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If Sizewell's right for once and there is NVO then this is a good thing on a turbo'd engine, so you're on the right track with forced induction. Getting any heat away will always be beneficial so the remote setup looks like a good solution (although maybe not as far away as the Mustang picture ..)
??????????????
 

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Hi all, out of interest, has anyone looking into turbo charging their 159 JTS (3.2 more specifically) in a remote setup configuration? I've been doing a lot of reading recently regarding remote turbo setups and because of the exhaust header positions of the 159 v6, a remote setup would be much easier in my opinion. Any one done it? Any one thought of it? Any one gone turbo in another way? Any thoughts?
Better off fitting a SAAB or Vauxhall 2.8 Turbo engine. I have seen them brand new for under £2k. The timing is all wrong on the JTS and the engine already cooks with the manifold cats. One can't make a "Silk Purse out of this Pig's Ear", without major engineering work. So why pretend!
Are you aware of what else is to be changed alongside the engine itself? ECU and entire exhaust are for sure..Will it fit w/o much hussle?
 

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In my first year of owning a Brera I was all enthusiastic of extracting more power out of the car.
People use to say. “ if you want more speed, then buy a faster car “ they was mostly right.
At the age these cars are at now, it’s probably best to treat them just as a rare unusual object and you bought one because you wanted something none run of the mill.

Enjoy the noise what you get from the 3.2 ( even though it’s an none Alfa at heart ) the way it feels planted on or off the Motorway networks, the second to none leather trim & smell. The fact it’s an Alfa, and you get great satisfaction from when you walk away from it and you glance back after a certain amount of footsteps.
That’s what these cars are really about. They are not so much about the tuning aspects of what BHP can be gained...


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Are you aware of what else is to be changed alongside the engine itself? ECU and entire exhaust are for sure..Will it fit w/o much hussle?
Are you are referring to fitting a 2.8 SAAB or a Vauxhall 2.8 Turbo? The SAAB/Vauxhall/Opel can be fitted with a stand - alone ECU. The Exhaust system is considerably simpler as the Manifolds feed the turbo which is mounted above the clutch/gearbox. As for the exhaust, from there onward the exhaust does not appear to me to be too much trouble. There is at least as much space under the bonnet of the 159/Brera as there is with the Insignia.

Worst case scenario, if my work on my car goes tyts - up, at the price of a new SAAB/Vauxhall 2.8, complete with turbo etc, etc, it will be a serious alternative. But I'm hopeful, all will be well.

The Z28 is structurally identical to the Alfa 3.2 JTS and I do not foresee any major issues. The transfer box is connected to the gearbox & the sump on the Alfa. I cannot see that being markedly different with the SAAB or Vauxhall 4 X 4. But worst case it will just need the Q4 sump fitted. And while that is done, the sump can be modified - swage plates? fitted to reduce the risk of the pick - up being exposed.
 

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An excellent link. However, to return to my point. The JTS Valve timing is such that Quote:- "In the interest of promoting maximum idle quality with minimum idle fuel consumption, minimization of valve overlap is desirable". - SAE.820749

So the 3.2 JTS fulfills that criteria. As I understand, the intention of the O/P is to retain the Manifold Cats.

As the JTS has NVO at tick - over & Off - Throttle positions, and all four valves are closed, there is no re - ingesting of unburnt HC's or Nox. No EGR Function. So the JTS is relying upon the temperature of the cats to reduce these pollutants - although it will not be as effective with Nox as that component requires a lower temperature to be reduced.

Theoretically, the Nox is probably reduced in the section of exhaust between the manifold cats and the secondary cats under the car as the temperature of the gases reduces within the pipe. - speculation on my part

By design, the engine; at least at tick - over & off - throttle conditions, is relying on Catalytic Converter temperature being swiftly raised to "light - Off" temperature. This assisted by virtue of the fact that the exhaust camshaft is fully advanced and gets the gases out early, while relatively speaking pressure is still high and the temperature of the exhaust gases also elevated above the norm.

My research leads me to believe this quickly raises the cylinder head temperatures, in some cases to the extent that coil packs melt - personal opinion. Unlike turbo engines, where the compression ratio is lower, this engine has a C/R of 11.4:1. The intention being to improve the volumetric efficiency. Higher volumetric efficiency results in higher specific power outputs, with respect to lower compression ratio SI engines. This also results in Higher Temperatures.

To then cool the charge air, and induct it into the cylinders, at a greater mass [Turbo or Supercharger], than the engine was designed for, will increase the specific power output, and the thermal losses. Elevating the temperature of the cats and the cylinder heads above their safe working range - again opinion. Consequently, the rare metals within the cats can melt, partly blocking the cats. The increased temperature elevation of the exhaust gases, being reflected back to the cylinder heads will increase head temperatures and probably cause the coil packs to suffer thermal collapse - melt.

Just my two pennies-worth!
 

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In other words get the heat out of the engine bay.
A better option is to keep heat out of the engine bay by avoiding modifications which elevate temperatures and create thermal stress.

Fit a SAAB or Vauxhall 2.8 turbo engine and be done with it!
 
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