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A little cough...

9312 Views 87 Replies 18 Participants Last post by  smhaze
Dear all,

Not a huge problem this, it certainly doesn't happen all the time, and it's mostly out of curiosity that I'm enquiring.

I find, occasionally, in 2nd and 3rd gears when accelerating slowly (such as when coming off a roundabout and getting back up to speed), that the 159 gives a little cough. It tends to happen at just over 2000 rpm. It's almost as if briefly the engine loses fuel or air supply.

It's a diesel, a 1.9 JTDm.

The EGR and throttle body have recently been removed and cleaned, as I thought this could have caused some of it. I have not had the EGR blanking plate / remap done.

Another thing that may valuable to know is that the acceleration profile in first gear (only) is not smooth. Up to around 3000rpm it is as smooth, but after this there is a giant kick up to 4000. I was thinking that perhaps the lumpy acceleration profile and the cough are related.

Has anyone else experienced anything similar, or have any ideas about what may be causing this?

All the best,
Andy

(Apart from this a very happy 159 owner)
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Hi Gbymb

What colour do you have? North or South of the river?

Re EGR Simulator, I'm hoping that it turns up this week so that I can have a play over Easter. Tracking says that It's been sitting in Melbourne since about Tuesday last week, so should turn up any day soon. As they say, W.A. does mean "Wait A-while. I'll post the results as soon as I have it fitted.

Tuning / Mapping software will likely be the next step if the EGR simulator doesn't work.

Regards

Brenton
Hey Brenton, North,Craigie. Red with white paint chips :-b, where are you?
Mike
Do not underestimate the power of a sticking VGT ;-) I think you guys should look there instead & either find the ovencleaner or disassemble to remove soot/rust :)
Do you say to disassemble the vgt and give it a good clean? Can it be done without pulling the turbo?
Chipmunk, you may be right. Will look at that after the EGR simulator. Should be able to see if the actuator on the VGT is stuck or sticky.

Otherwise I'm thinking a can of Mr Muscle into the exhaust side of the turbo. Not sure how hard that is to do, but have read others are able to do it, so, hopefully not too difficult.

It's just that I can't see the actuator from the top or properly from underneath. Maybe not looking hard enough.
A worthwhile read, thankyou. Definitely something worth considering. Does the swirl flap delete with the EGR delete cure the dreaded stutter?
Stuttering and hesitation on a 159 1.9 16v JTDM was the start of this thread
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...s-how-and-maf-clean-how-anywhere-159-1-a.html

It's a long, oily story. TL/DR: both Resolution's 159 and my 147 had detached swirl flaps and consequential damage, both now DIY fixed and running well. My EGR is deleted, his is restricted.
Hey Brenton, North,Craigie. Red with white paint chips :-b, where are you?
Mike
Hi Mike
South in Oakford.
Likely to corrode any aluminium like parts.

Don't
How many aluminium parts would you find on exhaust side in a turbo? ;-)
How many aluminium parts would you find on exhaust side in a turbo? ;-)
Some people may want to spray it in the clogged intake side.
Some people may want to spray it in the clogged intake side.
No, some people dont want to do that, because problem only is on exhaust-side where VGT is positioned....People that would do it on inlet side, could might as well spray it on the roof....Like with anything, if you got no clue about what your doing...DONT do it ;-)
VGT clean.

i got under the car and managed to drown the VGT accuator with CRC. It didn't seem sticky before I lubed it. I then managed to get my hand to the mechanism, which seems to have a small longer rod to enable manual movement??!! I could move it and it seemed smooth enough but the spring is really strong and was really at the limit of using my finger to work the vane.
Is it meant to be so strong?

The first drive seemed better, but after 15 mins it was the same.

Regarding the boost sensor, how do I tell if it's playing up?

I've cleaned to little sponge by flicking it, wasn't really dirty.

Does anyone know if I can put pressurized air down any of this vacuum system to clean it? Are the little right angle connections on the back of the inlet manifold, the feeds for this system? Do they just venturi into the manifold??

Any thoughts??? anyone had this apart?

thanks in advance. :depressed:
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It's really hard to check with finger pressure as the vacuum actuator acts as a strong spring that masks how free the VGT mechanism is or isn't. The only reliable way to check the VGT vanes aren't sticking is to test with a Mityvac (or cheap Chinese clone - ~15GBP on eBay) vacuum pump, connected to the actuator with a bit of hose. The actuator should move proportionately right back to the stop as you increase vacuum from 0-approx 18cm Hg (full range of the actuator is specced at 0-20cm Hg). This is about 2cm total movement at the lever end, not 1cm as eLearn states. If it jams and stops part way, or the movement isn't linear, the variable vane is sticking due to carbon and/or rust. Aerosol cleaners can deal with carbon, but not rust. It often is rust, just a tiny bit on the cast iron surface jams the moving vanes. Or, more rarely, at very high mileages you lose movement in wear to the VGT mechanism itself, within the turbo.

I think it's worth taking the turbo off and doing the job properly. It's then just 4 bolts to get inside the exhaust side of the turbo and clean it up and check for wear. It's also a good opportunity to check the general condition of the turbo impellers, seals and bearings. You have to detach the front cat from the turbo to use an aerosol and that is the hardest bit of removal anyway, thanks to the ferocious V-band clamp. If rust is the cause, you won't find out until you find it still sticks, so have to do it all again.

EDIT: and the vacuum used is created by the vacuum pump on the gearbox end of the cylinder head - the round, silver can thing, it's driven by exhaust cam rotation. It seldom goes wrong. What does very commonly go wrong is the vacuum pipe between the vacuum solenoid and the turbo vacuum actuator splits or develops tiny holes, that leads to lack of or erratic boost at low revs. Definitely the first thing to check, and it's a cheap and easy fix to replace (3mm ID silicone tube).
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Thanks for all that, you've given me a little light at the end of the tunnel. I hope it's not an on coming train :)
.....the vacuum used is created by the vacuum pump on the gearbox end of the cylinder head - the round, silver can thing, it's driven by exhaust cam rotation. It seldom goes wrong.
I wondered what that was and how it works. Thanks.:byebye:
EGR Simulator has turned up, finally, after being stuck in Melbourne for about 2 weeks.

Will give this puppy a run on the week-end and see how it goes.
OK, so I couldn't wait till the weekend so went out to the shed after dinner and fitted the EGR simulator and full blanking plate.

After hooking up the EGR Simulator I checked the ECU for errors of which there were two: One being that the MAF sensor had been disconnected and the other that the EGR had been disconnected. This was because the instructions say to turn on the ignition with the EGR disconnected and check the voltage with a volt meter on the two connecting pins on the EGR harness to make sure they are the right way round. It just so happened that I had the MAF sensor disconnected at that time also. So I used MultiECUscan to reset the errors.

Took the car for a run for about 45 mins, all different speeds and different loads. The good news is that there is now NO STUTTER. Zippo, Zilch, Nada. Drives like a dream.:thumbup: There is also no check engine light either. So I will continue to drive the car for another week then report back. Fingers crossed because so far so good.

Also, the wiring for the simulator comes in a proper harness now which is so much better than the photos on the Ebay advert.

The car still feels like that it has a "Power Band" when the revs hit 2.5 to 3k, but maybe they all feel like that? I don't know but it does feel good. Will report back in a week unless something happens before then.
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Good news! Give your map sensor a clean too ( I used EGR cleaner and sprayed a bit in the manifold too.



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I wondered what that was and how it works. Thanks.:byebye:
That vacuum pump also makes vacuum for the brake servo, so if the servo is working well and the brakes aren't heavy, the pump is OK.
Good news! Give your map sensor a clean too ( I used EGR cleaner and sprayed a bit in the manifold too.
Good tip, Thank you.

Almost wasn't going to bother as I had fitted a new MAP sensor less than 3,000km ago. However when I pulled it out, it was quite clagged up again, so cleaned it with a few shots of Brake clean.

If these things get clagged up so quickly with the EGR active (thankfully no loger a concern for myself), then how on earth can these sensors ever work properly in a standard system, even from when the cars were new?
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