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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi guys,

on facebook i saw a video from "Alex Performance". He fitted the 674s injectors in his 1.9 JTDm 16v and run it with 2500bar (upgraded pump off course).

These injectors are used in the 2.2 Multijet in Alfa Giulia and Stelvio.

What i know about these injectors:

Bosch 0445110674 (or 0445110673 or 55260836)
2000 bar CR injector
Spray angle: unknown
Holes: 7
Nozzle: F00VW30133
Connector: M14 (injectors like 243/299/308/327/341 have M12)

I talked with some friends who work at Bosch, but nobody have informations about the spray angle.
Alex Performance shared an spray angle, but i dont belive it.

I have destroyed one 674 injectors and remove the nozzle. This is why i know the partnumber.

With this nozzle i did some spray pattern test. For me, it looks like the same spray pattern as a 299/308/327. Here some pictures....

Drawing, how is the angle of the spray lines in the front view, to compare it with my pictures:
http://www.danverclan.de/media/pics/stilo/injector/327s_spray.jpg

Animated GIF with booth injectors (red is 327s):
http://www.danverclan.de/media/pics/stilo/injector/327_vs_674.gif

Angle measured from pictures (not exactly):
http://www.danverclan.de/media/pics/stilo/injector/327_vs_674_spray.jpg

So, the spray pattern is one part. Now i have to solve some other problems.

Fits the injector in the injector seat without adapting the hole? Here the dimensions of the injectors:
http://www.danverclan.de/media/pics/stilo/injector/injector_dimensions.jpg

Have anybody here a cylinder head an can measure the holes?
And attention: stock is a 2mm washer. With this injectors we need a 3mm washer (nozzle is 1mm longer)!!!

Next part: fuel rail, rail lines and return line.
The fuel rail from Giulia/Stelvio is a bad choice. This rail have an pressure sensor and a DRV/MRPOP and a fuel return line. In our engines, we cant use the DRV/MPROP and the return line.

My idea: use a fuel rail from 170hp JTDm (but i dont know the threads) and the rail lines from the Giulia/Stelvio rail - all theoretically!
And the return line (injector blackflow) can used from Giulia/Stelvio.

This looks like not an easy job, but it seems possible.

Whats the benefit? TribesMan compare these injectors with 243 and 341. They are 20% over the 341 injectors and can run higher railpressure (up to 2200 bar).

If someone have more informations or ideas => bringt it on!

Cheers, Chris
 

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Good initiative Chris!

That spray angle looks very similair indeed! Did you ask Alex Performance how he made it? Probably he will not tell you though.
I have a cylinderhead, what dimensions do you need? Diameter and depth of the injector holes?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi Joel, Alex Performance told some other things and this was also not correct. So, its better to go my own way.

Yes, i need the diameters and depth of the hole. It looks like, there are two different diameters in the depths (there an edge in the hole).

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Ok, we have now the information about the injector hole. Stock its 17mm and it needs to extend to 19mm for the 674s injectors.

Puh thats a lot of work. But its possible without removing the head.
 

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I'am currently running 327 injectors with 2100-2150 bar pressure. R80 is not capable to reach targeted 2200 bar with 120 IQ. But no issues so far after 10k+ km.

I think bigger problem is to reach 2500 bar (or even 2700) rail pressure. There is no information how to fit or even control R90 CP3. And without this upgrade there is no need for 674s.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
You use injectors which are made for 1600 bar with around 500 bar more railpressure and say "there is no need for 674s" which are made for 2200 bar (if we can trust the duration table)? Do you mean that seriously?

The 674s can flow 20% more then the 341s. You can inject more fuel in a shorter time. So its more time to burn the whole fuel and you gain more power.

And another big point is the backflow. The 327s have with 2100 bar are a hugh backfow. The 674s not, because they are made for this pressue. There is also no need for and R90 CP3 pump. The pump capacity is not so much bigger. The step from R80 to R85 is bigger then from R85 to R90.
 

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To be precise 674s is rated for 2000 Bar by Bosch (CRI2-20).

Good point for backflow and flow capacity. But I don't think that R80 is capable to maintain 2500 bar even with 674s. So, basically same problem remains.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
120mm3 with 2200bar = 772 usec
120mm3 with 2000bar = 810 usec

This are the figures of the 674s

I think there is no need for 2500bar. And when I look at the videos of Alex Performance - the egt is still very high.

And yes, you are right

327 = 1600 bar (duration table up to 1800 bar)
674 = 2000 bar (duration table up to 2200 bar)
 

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why do you not change the whole engine out?
2143ccm has more power potential as 1910ccm

or it is possiblie to make a 2.1 litre stroker from the 1.9 litre engine?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
An engine swap is a little bit more expensive... And whats with ecu, gearbox, driveshafts, etc.? And my target is not to gain the most power. My target is a stable 250hp german autobahn setup.

But why we talking about that? I want to install bigger injectors. I very happy with this engine.

Here the duration table for 674s (top) vs. 341s (middle) vs. 308 (bottom)
Thanks to TribesMan for this comparisons
 

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Very interesting topic :)

But what will happen when you manage to install the new injectors, by that I mean the codes that you have to input in to the ECU for each injector?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
You can't use the IMA codes from the 674s. But opel/vauxhall guys use 327s in the 150hp cdti (same like 1.9 JTDm 16v) without IMA codes - and without problems.

I have also installed 327s with new generated IMA codes for 308s and 4 of 5 injectors get the same IMA code. It works great. So i would use this "standard" ima code "A11ADKCAA" for the first time.

A wrong IMA code don't destroy your engine. A rough idle can be a result.
 

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It will be very interesting and useful if someone installs 674s injectors and shares in detail what is the exactly procedure necessary to fit them and what is the outcome and effect of this swap....

I have looked at second hand auto parts for 674s injectors and was pleasantly surprised how many injectors are being offered at a great price.

Thanks so much for sharing crossshot! Keep digging!
 

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You can't use the IMA codes from the 674s. But opel/vauxhall guys use 327s in the 150hp cdti (same like 1.9 JTDm 16v) without IMA codes - and without problems.

I have also installed 327s with new generated IMA codes for 308s and 4 of 5 injectors get the same IMA code. It works great. So i would use this "standard" ima code "A11ADKCAA" for the first time.

A wrong IMA code don't destroy your engine. A rough idle can be a result.
this "standard" ima code is for which injectors? also is it really some kind of "default" code?
I've heard about such code for bmw but didn't find it for 308 injectors.

P.S. 1 more question. 327 injectors are way cheaper and easier to find. Their "productivity" afaik is equal to 308's. Can they be installed instead of 308's?
 

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I'am currently running 327 injectors with 2100-2150 bar pressure. R80 is not capable to reach targeted 2200 bar with 120 IQ. But no issues so far after 10k+ km.

I think bigger problem is to reach 2500 bar (or even 2700) rail pressure. There is no information how to fit or even control R90 CP3. And without this upgrade there is no need for 674s.
what engine?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
this "standard" ima code is for which injectors? also is it really some kind of "default" code?
I've heard about such code for bmw but didn't find it for 308 injectors.

P.S. 1 more question. 327 injectors are way cheaper and easier to find. Their "productivity" afaik is equal to 308's. Can they be installed instead of 308's?
I dont know, if its a "default" code. But 4 of 5 of my 327 injectors, which are tested on a "hartridge injector tester", get this code.
I know what you mean for BMW. There is the reset code for piezo injectors "AAAAA5G".

End yes, i have used the 327s because they are way cheaper and easier to find, as you say. They are exactly the same injector as 299 and 308. I've checked this in Bosch Esi Tronic. They all have only different IMA codes for different ECUs.

The idle with the 327s and the IMA code "A11ADKCAA" ist complete smooth and all idle correction values are good.
 

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I dont know, if its a "default" code. But 4 of 5 of my 327 injectors, which are tested on a "hartridge injector tester", get this code.
I know what you mean for BMW. There is the reset code for piezo injectors "AAAAA5G".

End yes, i have used the 327s because they are way cheaper and easier to find, as you say. They are exactly the same injector as 299 and 308. I've checked this in Bosch Esi Tronic. They all have only different IMA codes for different ECUs.

The idle with the 327s and the IMA code "A11ADKCAA" ist complete smooth and all idle correction values are good.
Thanks! Will try this code with my 308 injectors and will see if smth will change)
 

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The idle with the 327s and the IMA code "A11ADKCAA" ist complete smooth and all idle correction values are good.
Looks interesting. I will try it to check is there any difference. I left old injectors codes and haven't had any problems at all.

Sorry for double post.
 
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