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60MPH on M way's to cut polution

3K views 62 replies 19 participants last post by  Negativvv 
#1 ·
Report here from the BBC. I dont know these areas, but something tells me they suffer quite bad congestion. So, many drivers at some times of the day would love to be travelling at 60MPH. But the article refers to N0x being the problem, this is predominantly a diesel issue, isnt it? Is this a blunt instrument to fix a problem that will fail?

 
#2 ·
But the article refers to N0x being the problem, this is predominantly a diesel issue, isnt it? Is this a blunt instrument to fix a problem that will fail?

There are 4 stretches of 4.5 miles according to the news report I read. Don’t forget that direct injection petrol engines also produce NOx and under the Euro 6 limits (and there are different types), for petrol and diesel cars are similar with respect to laboratory measurement allowances and petrol limits for CO2 are higher. It’s not quite so easy as just blaming diesels especially as newer engines and pollution control as part of exhaust systems are much more effective than previous examples.
Whilst not related to road traffic on motorways and NOx, it is important to realise that modern gas central heating boilers operating at higher temperatures produce significant levels of NOx and that would have an effect in urban areas, perhaps it isn’t so simple.
 
#3 ·
It's a couple of years since I've used it, but they've already had 60 mph limits on the M1 through Sheffield & further, albeit only, from memory, between 7AM & 7PM, so I don't know why they need a new trial.
 
#6 ·
941844


Because EVs produce nearly as much PM as Euro V. Tyres (more so because EVs are heavy) and brakes are a huge contributor.

PM only reduces the life of a person by 2 days in the UK. Source in page 67: https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/healthy-environment-healthy-lives
It is so low they measure it as years of life lost per 100,000 people.

These are completely unnecessary measures.
 
#7 ·
Maybe introduce lower tax rates for people who are happy to have a limiter of 60mph put on their cars? And make everyone else pay the same amount to drive up to 70mph? As cars get safer, drag coefficients lower and performance increases, we should be increasing speed limits, not reducing them.
 
#10 ·
If you want to reduce pollution in Germany you should start getting rid of your coal power electricity power station.
 
#13 ·
It would be more effective to bad emmisons cheating VAG cars from that particular stretch of road.

It could also be that engines run less efficiently at 60mph than at 70mph. Our Giulietta for instance isn't really happy in 6th gear at 60mph, where as at 70 it is fine. I am sure that the emmisions are higher at 60mph in 5th than at 70mph in 6th as it is running at higher RPM.
 
#14 ·
On the M602 at peak times, 60mph would be pretty good going. On the M5 I don't think I've managed much more than walking pace on most of my journeys.

I can see logic in the argument that if all the traffic is doing a similar speed it flows better though. If you increase the limit you will still have people doing 55-60 but the ones who currently drive at 90ish will start doing 100ish. That's a big speed difference to deal with when you're hacking across three lanes at the last second to get to your junction in your S3.
 
#15 ·
I noticed while driving on French Autoroutes this summer that there were a number of sections where temporary low speed limits were in effect to reduce "le pollution". Around Lyons there were several stretches of 130/110 that were limited to 90 for emissions. People were taking them seriously too.
 
#16 ·
There’s been a 30mph limit on junctions 1 and 2 on the M5 for the last year or two so 60 is a dream by comparison!

I’m not wholly convinced by the plans, I thought similar when I saw gantry signs a little while ago telling you to slow down to produce less pollutants. Surely crawling along is causing more problems?


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#19 ·
#20 ·
The mandatory speed limiters can be disabled but you'd have to do it each time you get in the car. There might be a wide open throttle override too for 'emergencies'. I think you can be sure the ECU will record any overrides which could be interesting in the case of an insurance claim.

On the Nox issues I'd be interested to see the split of emissions between cars and lorries, a 60 limit will have zero effect on the commercial vehicles that already travel at that speed or slower.
 
#34 ·
Speed limits are frustrating but I see their need as a good chunk of people are not responsible.

I live near the A13 near London and it utterly winds me up there is a 50 mph speed limit enforced with average cameras THAT ARE ACTIVE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WHEN YOU ARE THE ONLY CAR ON 3 LANES :devilish: Plus when it's busy you haven't got a hope in hell of doing 50 mph anyway!!!

The mandatory speed limiters can be disabled but you'd have to do it each time you get in the car. There might be a wide open throttle override too for 'emergencies'. I think you can be sure the ECU will record any overrides which could be interesting in the case of an insurance claim.
Spare a thought for the kids today, some girl at work is 18 and she has a black box on her car. The instant she goes over the speed limit, even by a fraction she gets an email from the insurer. Do it 3 times and her policy gets cancelled apparently :oops:
 
#22 ·
I followed a 2 stroke motorbike home tonight, the smell from the uncatalysed exhaust with oil smoke mixed in was lovely.

And it didn't make me choke or feel ill like the fumes from a Diesel.
 
#32 ·
I messed around with loads of two stroke bikes in my younger years and i have lived to tell the tale. But if i start up the (diesel) Alfa and allow it to run whilst de-icing the windows it makes me choke like hell.
 
#49 ·
That’s interesting. Although worth noting that they note there are differences between exhaust and non exhaust particulates chemically with different toxicity.

Luckily there are a range of other benefits of EVs and a small improvement in PM emissions is not the driving factor for their uptake.
 
#50 ·
Has there ever been a study which shows that the lifetime environmental impact of:
(a) Electric vehicles or
(b) Hybrids
is greater than that of internal combustion petrol or diesel vehicles? I haven't found one.

Is there an expectation that:
(a) the costs and
(b) the environmental impact
of the young electric vehicle industry will fail to improve with development, in the way it has in the 130 year-old motor industry?

Where now are the people who used to tell us that wind and solar energy would be:
(a) more expensive than other sources and
(b) only ever make a small contribution to meeting demand
We don't seem to hear from them.
 
#54 · (Edited)
First question.....On Evs No....none that ive seen.....but their whole life emissions (production, use, disposal) are not the night and day improvement over ICEs that lots expect and many believe! Hydrids...several I believe ....I will try to hunt one down when I finish this.

EDIT....two minute google found this....amongst many others.

Second question....No!...of course they will get better in all those respects….especially when Tesla stop making cars to concentrate on battery production and the big boys like VW, Merc and BMW get properly into EVs and produce cars that are superior to the Tesla offerings in every way ( to be honest Dacia use better quality materials for the interior....horrible!!...so it wont be difficult!)

Third Question....they were largely wrong. Although there is already a question over the lifespan of wind turbines not being anything like what was expected.....and like to increase expected generation cost as they need to be replaced with superior ones....especially the off shore ones!! Surely that should not of come as a surprise to many!! LOL. I would not be surprised to see the next generation of nuclear power stations killing the renewable sector stone dead though....the next gen technology is a massive step forward in safety, efficiency and waste production over the old ones we had.. Much more power all from a just a few places to (rather than the blots all over the landscape that are wind turbines and solar farms.)
 
#51 ·
The mining of the raw materials must produce a fairly large environmental impact, and as a lot of it comes from poorer countries you can bet that there's a fair bit of exploitation involved as well.
 
#52 ·
For the first 40/50 years of the motor industry the car was considered to be a luxury that only the relatively rich could afford despite Henry Ford's production line techniques. Even as late as the 1950s the traffic exiting factory gates at closing time was predominately bicycles. I hope that the same will not be true of the young electric vehicle industry but unless the price drops significantly they will remain something for only the relatively well off who can afford to indulge in eco politics. Most people will look at the bottom line cost and continue to buy what is the most economic solution for them.
 
#55 ·
Saw this in today's paper suggesting hybrids are not as good as people think.
Apparently owners don't bother recharging them via the plug-in but rely on the inbuilt engine kicking in automatically.
I wonder how much of the choosing of a hybrid is drivers virtue signalling to their bosses/neighbours
 
#56 ·
My former employer had a small fleet of Hybrids and I was the one of the only ones who understood to plug them in when not in use. Everyone else just screamed around on full petrol....

I'm fairly sure production causes the most pollution for any given car but we live in a consumer society so they can't tout keeping ancient cars going despite that possibly being the real solution.
 
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