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Discussion Starter #1
Report here from the BBC. I dont know these areas, but something tells me they suffer quite bad congestion. So, many drivers at some times of the day would love to be travelling at 60MPH. But the article refers to N0x being the problem, this is predominantly a diesel issue, isnt it? Is this a blunt instrument to fix a problem that will fail?

 

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But the article refers to N0x being the problem, this is predominantly a diesel issue, isnt it? Is this a blunt instrument to fix a problem that will fail?

There are 4 stretches of 4.5 miles according to the news report I read. Don’t forget that direct injection petrol engines also produce NOx and under the Euro 6 limits (and there are different types), for petrol and diesel cars are similar with respect to laboratory measurement allowances and petrol limits for CO2 are higher. It’s not quite so easy as just blaming diesels especially as newer engines and pollution control as part of exhaust systems are much more effective than previous examples.
Whilst not related to road traffic on motorways and NOx, it is important to realise that modern gas central heating boilers operating at higher temperatures produce significant levels of NOx and that would have an effect in urban areas, perhaps it isn’t so simple.
 

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It's a couple of years since I've used it, but they've already had 60 mph limits on the M1 through Sheffield & further, albeit only, from memory, between 7AM & 7PM, so I don't know why they need a new trial.
 

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2010 Alfa Romeo Mito 1.4, 2003 Alfa Romeo GTV Phase 3 JTS
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Maybe introduce lower tax rates for people who are happy to have a limiter of 60mph put on their cars? And make everyone else pay the same amount to drive up to 70mph? As cars get safer, drag coefficients lower and performance increases, we should be increasing speed limits, not reducing them.
 

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Excellent points. I knew about this but aren't the 'trial' restrictions aimed at tailpipe emissions, NOx in particular?

In any case you raise an important point: once they're finished destroying car culture because of tailpipe emissions, pollution from tyre and brake wear will be next. I look forward to a future of kids hot-rodding flying cars!

View attachment 941844

Because EVs produce nearly as much PM as Euro V. Tyres (more so because EVs are heavy) and brakes are a huge contributor.

PM only reduces the life of a person by 2 days in the UK. Source in page 67: https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/healthy-environment-healthy-lives
It is so low they measure it as years of life lost per 100,000 people.

These are completely unnecessary measures.
 

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Excellent points. I knew about this but aren't the 'trial' restrictions aimed at tailpipe emissions, NOx in particular?
In Germany, putting a speedlimit on the Autobahn is said to reduce CO2 emissions by 1.4% so it's not gonna have much big of an effect IMO.

A proper government would provide alternatives (synthetic fuels etc.) to it's citizens rather than slow them down.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
If you want to reduce pollution in Germany you should start getting rid of your coal power electricity power station.
 

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They should get off the roads the 1000's of vehicles which are, un taxed, no insurance or mot, banned drivers, vehicles with removed or tampered emmision systems and not forgetting the ones belching out smoke because of lack of servicing or a engine warning light stuck on.
 

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If you want to reduce pollution in Germany you should start getting rid of your coal power electricity power station.
We would if the eco idiots didn't destroy our nuclear power. And don't say turn them off because you know what's happening in California.
 

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It would be more effective to bad emmisons cheating VAG cars from that particular stretch of road.

It could also be that engines run less efficiently at 60mph than at 70mph. Our Giulietta for instance isn't really happy in 6th gear at 60mph, where as at 70 it is fine. I am sure that the emmisions are higher at 60mph in 5th than at 70mph in 6th as it is running at higher RPM.
 

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On the M602 at peak times, 60mph would be pretty good going. On the M5 I don't think I've managed much more than walking pace on most of my journeys.

I can see logic in the argument that if all the traffic is doing a similar speed it flows better though. If you increase the limit you will still have people doing 55-60 but the ones who currently drive at 90ish will start doing 100ish. That's a big speed difference to deal with when you're hacking across three lanes at the last second to get to your junction in your S3.
 

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I noticed while driving on French Autoroutes this summer that there were a number of sections where temporary low speed limits were in effect to reduce "le pollution". Around Lyons there were several stretches of 130/110 that were limited to 90 for emissions. People were taking them seriously too.
 

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There’s been a 30mph limit on junctions 1 and 2 on the M5 for the last year or two so 60 is a dream by comparison!

I’m not wholly convinced by the plans, I thought similar when I saw gantry signs a little while ago telling you to slow down to produce less pollutants. Surely crawling along is causing more problems?


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Why don't the governement put a bit more effort into preventing stop start traffic due to congestion on our motorways? Stopping and starting would create much more pollution than sitting at 2,500 rpm at 70mph surely? Not to mention brake particulates.
 

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The mandatory speed limiters can be disabled but you'd have to do it each time you get in the car. There might be a wide open throttle override too for 'emergencies'. I think you can be sure the ECU will record any overrides which could be interesting in the case of an insurance claim.

On the Nox issues I'd be interested to see the split of emissions between cars and lorries, a 60 limit will have zero effect on the commercial vehicles that already travel at that speed or slower.
 
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