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guys, currently I am out of town..on some sort of vacation, visiting the in laws at the seaside. Therefore I will postpone all further checks for when I am back in civilization. However, I would like to point out that the fusebox is ok. Also there is no visible leakage,nor smell of gasoline. I wanted that ruled out,since I have 2 kids and a Golden retriever at the back. What would you recommend? Checking 1st the solenoid, then the pump itself and ultimately the injectors? Hypothetically, if an injector is leaking, how would the symptoms differ from those of a bad solenoid?
Well pretty much everything suggested was on the proviso that your intank fuel pump was tested to be delivering 6bar. Since you're back to square one start by checking the LP pump is receiving battery voltage with ignition on at the pump connector. It's not constant voltage, you'll only have 2-3 seconds measuring time with each ignition on cycle. If not battery voltage(or close to it) change out the fuel pump relay and fuse. You can temporarily use the rear windscreen demister relay in the cabin fusebox. If still not battery voltage you got a problem in wiring and or fuse box, including the fuel pump cut off switch inside cabin. Start with that see how you go.
 

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Well pretty much everything suggested was on the proviso that your intank fuel pump was tested to be delivering 6bar. Since you're back to square one start by checking the LP pump is receiving battery voltage with ignition on at the pump connector. It's not constant voltage, you'll only have 2-3 seconds measuring time with each ignition on cycle. If not battery voltage(or close to it) change out the fuel pump relay and fuse. You can temporarily use the rear windscreen demister relay in the cabin fusebox. If still not battery voltage you got a problem in wiring and or fuse box, including the fuel pump cut off switch inside cabin. Start with that see how you go.
Reckon we should start a new thread/section and call it “Annular Testing”.


 

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Discussion Starter · #103 ·
Reckon we should start a new thread/section and call it “Annular Testing”.


Brian, you might be a knowledgeable engineer, but it seems that your communication skills are virtually nonexistent. You know that any meaningful contribution on your end is more than welcome, but you can keep to yourself any bitter, resentful remarks. Thanks in advance!
 

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Discussion Starter · #104 ·
Well pretty much everything suggested was on the proviso that your intank fuel pump was tested to be delivering 6bar. Since you're back to square one start by checking the LP pump is receiving battery voltage with ignition on at the pump connector. It's not constant voltage, you'll only have 2-3 seconds measuring time with each ignition on cycle. If not battery voltage(or close to it) change out the fuel pump relay and fuse. You can temporarily use the rear windscreen demister relay in the cabin fusebox. If still not battery voltage you got a problem in wiring and or fuse box, including the fuel pump cut off switch inside cabin. Start with that see how you go.
My indie has built the reputation of the best in the country when Alfas are concerned. He told me that the pump was checked and no fault whatsoever was detected! Same about the HP pump. He, much like myself, is on vacation now. When he is back, I will enquire about the tests he did on the pump, but for my 15 years of alfa ownership, he is yet to let me down. If I knew what I know now, when I left him the car, I would have been very concise in my instructions and requirements, but that ship has sailed now. Thank you for your valuable input and I will keep you posted. Your advice is much appreciated!
 

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Brian, you might be a knowledgeable engineer, but it seems that your communication skills are virtually nonexistent. You know that any meaningful contribution on your end is more than welcome, but you can keep to yourself any bitter, resentful remarks. Thanks in advance!
It’s not - it’s wry humour! Surely you can see the connection with your clear lack of confidence - that is not a criticism, there are plenty of those who would not put their head above the Parapet.The engine is daunting, even for those that believe they understand it.

But at some point, as I have pointed out before, you have to pick an issue and eliminate it! It doesn’t matter if you are wrong; providing you complete your analysis it is one less issue complicating things.

But it is you who sets the tone/the stage - those that are trying to help are working blind!

Are you familiar with the term “Kiss” - Keep It Simple Stupid! Meaning, find the least difficult issue to eliminate from the equation - first. And progress on from that.

A child could run the tests that have been suggested to eliminate the LP return solenoid valve. Under an hour!

Do that first, and feed back your results - making a written record for your future reference. Confirm or eliminate this issue, then progress on to the next level. Key to your findings is what others will advise you to be the next step.

And don’t take things personal - see the funny side. After all, it was you who declared your OCD. I don’t believe such a condition exists - just people allow their imagination to run rings around logic.
 

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My indie has built the reputation of the best in the country when Alfas are concerned. He told me that the pump was checked and no fault whatsoever was detected! Same about the HP pump. He, much like myself, is on vacation now. When he is back, I will enquire about the tests he did on the pump, but for my 15 years of alfa ownership, he is yet to let me down. If I knew what I know now, when I left him the car, I would have been very concise in my instructions and requirements, but that ship has sailed now. Thank you for your valuable input and I will keep you posted. Your advice is much appreciated!
Petromet is not doubting your indie, he is just trying to track the direction you keep going with this. What he suggested was more than plausible, but you lack direction and keep changing. He hasn’t bailed out or said F.I.

So don’t squander the good will by F——-g people about! There has to be some commitment on your part to pursue this. Otherwise go pay for a dealer to sort it.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you probably should have been told this years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 ·
You are not sorry for being blunt, Brian 😀 You are being deliberately provocative! I am showing commitment and you can clearly see that in the past posts. I have addressed every single suggestion! As previously stated, I am unwilling to engage in meaninless spats. If you are seeking to annoy someone, I am not your audience 😉 If you want to help, you are more than welcome. And also I did pay 2 garages to sort this out, but tgey don't seem to be able to identify the problem.
As for @Petromet and his advice, I want to make clear that I am truly grateful 🙏 and his guidance is greatly appreciated! I am not saying that I believe more in my indie than in what he says. I am just explaining why I took the indie's word for granted and didn't enquire more at the time, which was obviously a mistake on my part. His input has helped me to understand the correlation between the separate parts involved, so now I can better try and identify the problem. Of course I will follow his last suggestion and share the findings here.
 

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It's all good gents.. The following is an animation video of an intank fuel pump in operation. Exceptional !


The 3.2 JTS doesn't have a sieve filter as shown in the video, it has a cylindrical filter much like the fitted engine oil filter with the pump unit sort of inserted in the centre of filter. The filter media is of composite paper construction.

Since it's best now to start from scratch it's imperative to know what voltage the pump is getting. If it's low it wont deliver its designed flow rate(which is showing up in your plots), remember pumps produce a flow rate, whether its a fuel, oil or water pump not pressure per se. I wont go into the whole flow/pressure debate. All you need for testing is a simple DMM.

Oh, if you're testing this yourself it will be the connectors that correspond to the 2 larger width pins on the pump. The smaller pins are the fuel level sender which are supplied with constant battery voltage with ignition on.
 

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It's all good gents.. The following is an animation video of an intank fuel pump in operation. Exceptional !


The 3.2 JTS doesn't have a sieve filter as shown in the video, it has a cylindrical filter much like the fitted engine oil filter with the pump unit sort of inserted in the centre of filter. The filter media is of composite paper construction.

Since it's best now to start from scratch it's imperative to know what voltage the pump is getting. If it's low it wont deliver its designed flow rate(which is showing up in your plots), remember pumps produce a flow rate, whether its a fuel, oil or water pump not pressure per se. I wont go into the whole flow/pressure debate. All you need for testing is a simple DMM.

Oh, if you're testing this yourself it will be the connectors that correspond to the 2 larger width pins on the pump. The smaller pins are the fuel level sender which are supplied with constant battery voltage with ignition on.
Nice one!

And just to clarify for IVO, I did not see anywhere that Petromet contradicted your Indie. From the sound of it you have a good Guy and it appeared to me, what Petromet was saying was, “On the basis that the pump has been tested and found to be good, the next step is ————x.”

It seems, not unreasonable from this, to assume this is correct, move away from the LP pump and proceed to the next step in the process.

If the pump is faulty, the following steps will lead you back to it. So there is nothing to be lost by accepting your Indies assertion.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #110 ·
hey, guys, I talked to my indie regarding the issue. He confirmed having tested the pump and it provided pressure to spec. I got a new appointment for next week. We agreed that I won´t test the voltage to the pump myself, since I will have to dismantle the back seats and will most probably break the clips that hold it in place. After all I do use the back seat daily, since that is where the 2 child seats are and furthermore the operation might have to be repeated if the voltage is ok. He will test the pressure build up by the pump again, also the fuel pressure regulator, which is one of my main suspects. It is unlikely to be an injector leaking, since the issue would be mainly on warm engine and there would be an increase of fuel consumption and possibly a petrol smell, none of which is present. Will keep you posted.
 

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Keep in mind you have 2 fuel pressure regulators. The intank pump is fitted with one - its a diaphragm spring type and as you are aware the high pressure pump is fitted with another, controlled by the ECU.
 

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Discussion Starter · #112 ·
Keep in mind you have 2 fuel pressure regulators. The intank pump is fitted with one - its a diaphragm spring type and as you are aware the high pressure pump is fitted with another, controlled by the ECU.
That's a valid point! We will have to check both. The steps to follow would be: check voltage to the intank pump, check flowrate of the intank pump and its pressure regulator, check the HP pump and the solenoid valve. Here is an interesting article on the matter, which might be useful to less knowledgeable lads, like myself when dealing with fuel delivery problems The Best Tests For Fuel Delivery Systems
We have already tackled some of the recommendations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #113 ·
Update, it is confirmed that the intank pump does not deliver enough pressure. I have to order a new pump and wait for it to come from the UK. When installed will confirm if it solved the issue. I am struggling to activate my paypal, since it is the only payment method the alfaworkshop.co.uk accepts...
 

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Glad you have a diagnosis! If you really can't get past Paypal let me know and I'd be happy to purchase and you transfer me the money directly? Do keep us posted once installed if it resolves the problem fully.
 

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Discussion Starter · #115 ·
Glad you have a diagnosis! If you really can't get past Paypal let me know and I'd be happy to purchase and you transfer me the money directly? Do keep us posted once installed if it resolves the problem fully.
I am hoping to get things sorted with PP by Monday morning in order to place my order and take advantage of the discount I have with the shop. If that doesn't work I will look for alternatives, so thanks a lot, Nick! Your willingness to help is highly appreciated! I will keep you guys posted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #116 ·
I did not manage to sort the things with PayPal, so I did pay the order via the PP of a friend of mine yesterday. I was amazed when I was notified this morning that the part is already in Sofia:eek: However, customs are making my life difficult and due to the brexit I will have to wait up to 5 working days for those lads to issue me with a simple number with which I can pay the corresponding taxes..FFS
 

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Discussion Starter · #118 ·
No probs! Just left the car at the shop with the pump. It took them 8 days to clear the shipment and it took only 18 hrs for the shipment to arrive from Cambridge UK, to Sofia Airport. I am speechless.
 

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Discussion Starter · #119 ·
Update. Just took the car from the shop. Starts 1st time. Also, the car is more responsive low in the RPM and the hesitation on downshift and full throttle is no longer present.
 
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