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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, the title says it all, but just to give a bit of background information:
I live in Australia and while 159s are plentiful, there's very few manuals. Especially in SW form. And it just so happens to be that I'm looking for a manual Q4 SW and I'm too stubborn to give up on any of those requirements.

So I'm looking at alternatives. A gearbox swap seems a bit excessive, but the Q4 system doesn't seem too complicated if you have a donor car to take the parts off. The main question is if the front Torsen diff bolts straight up to a non-Q4 gearbox. Part numbers for the gearboxes look the same, the Torsen diff just looks to bolts up to the output shaft where normally front diff would be, but I would like to know if someone could confirm it's indeed that simple or if the gearbox is different between versions.

Thanks!
 

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No idea but I'm in Brisbane with a manual Q4 wagon... Let me know if I can check anything for you to confirm or otherwise your theory.

Sent from my E6883 using Tapatalk
 

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Hi, the title says it all, but just to give a bit of background information:
I live in Australia and while 159s are plentiful, there's very few manuals. Especially in SW form. And it just so happens to be that I'm looking for a manual Q4 SW and I'm too stubborn to give up on any of those requirements.

So I'm looking at alternatives. A gearbox swap seems a bit excessive, but the Q4 system doesn't seem too complicated if you have a donor car to take the parts off. The main question is if the front Torsen diff bolts straight up to a non-Q4 gearbox. Part numbers for the gearboxes look the same, the Torsen diff just looks to bolts up to the output shaft where normally front diff would be, but I would like to know if someone could confirm it's indeed that simple or if the gearbox is different between versions.

Thanks!
The front Torsen diff is a Double "C" Both the front enclosed diff and the rear diff are open. However, the outer diff of the double Torsen is a L.S.D., with the front open one arranged within it. One Output of the outer Torsen drives the front open diff, within it and the other output feeds the transfer box. It is the outer of the double "C" - type 3 is all it means - which has slip/torque rings on the planetary shafts which cause the torque split to be variable, but it is the A.B.S. which is utilized on each axle when loss of grip on one wheel is sensed on the front or back.

The system is very very very good. But although there are three diffs, the front is a double "C", one within the other.

I have a Q4 but, I have never compared the two models with respect to whether the parts are interchangeable. Both gear boxes are however, F 40's

You are right to want a Q4 however, as it is superb.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
No idea but I'm in Brisbane with a manual Q4 wagon... Let me know if I can check anything for you to confirm or otherwise your theory.

Sent from my E6883 using Tapatalk
That's the best answer I could get. So they do exist! I've been looking for one for months, this week I almost went with a Sydney based auto out of desperation as I figured they don't exist. FCA Australia is trying to find out how many there are, but they weren't too sure.
Do you have a Ti version?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The front Torsen diff is a Double "C" Both the front enclosed diff and the rear diff are open. However, the outer diff of the double Torsen is a L.S.D., with the front open one arranged within it. One Output of the outer Torsen drives the front open diff, within it and the other output feeds the transfer box. It is the outer of the double "C" - type 3 is all it means - which has slip/torque rings on the planetary shafts which cause the torque split to be variable, but it is the A.B.S. which is utilized on each axle when loss of grip on one wheel is sensed on the front or back.

The system is very very very good. But although there are three diffs, the front is a double "C", one within the other.

I have a Q4 but, I have never compared the two models with respect to whether the parts are interchangeable. Both gear boxes are however, F 40's

You are right to want a Q4 however, as it is superb.
Thanks for the extensive reply. Yeah I'm happy Alfa went with the Torsen system instead of of the Haldex systems that Saab and Vauxhall got. They all have the same F40 gearbox, but they're not interchangable. From a cost perspective you would expect the gearboxes within one model line to all be the same. Especially when hooked up to the same 3.2 engine, but it's an expensive guess to take.
I'll probably have to jump under a manual and non-manual to do some research, but was hoping somebody would maybe know.

Thanks to Alfahaka though I know there's at least one manual Q4 wagon in Australia, so I'm hoping there are more and one will be up for sale in the not too distant future.

If I hear back from FCA with numbers I'll post them here, pretty sure I'm not the only one looking for this unicorn of a vehicle ;)
 

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Hi, the title says it all, but just to give a bit of background information:
I live in Australia and while 159s are plentiful, there's very few manuals. Especially in SW form. And it just so happens to be that I'm looking for a manual Q4 SW and I'm too stubborn to give up on any of those requirements.

So I'm looking at alternatives. A gearbox swap seems a bit excessive, but the Q4 system doesn't seem too complicated if you have a donor car to take the parts off. The main question is if the front Torsen diff bolts straight up to a non-Q4 gearbox. Part numbers for the gearboxes look the same, the Torsen diff just looks to bolts up to the output shaft where normally front diff would be, but I would like to know if someone could confirm it's indeed that simple or if the gearbox is different between versions.

Thanks!

hi

torsen diff is mounted to the gearbox but also to the engine block.
non q4 has slightly different exhaust arrangemnet at the rear. (if you are planning to change the whole kit inbetween q4 and non q4.)
dont know if the rear manifold and downpipe are different on q4 and non q4. someone could surely guide you better on that one

good luck! the q4 manual is the way to go, but bare in mind the transmission losses are big on q4 cars
 

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...left one is for 2.4jtd
I thought all F40 2WDs were similar. They only have one drive output compared to the two on the 4WD.
2wd for v6 looks like for 4wd but it has that plate like on your pictures and starter hole are at the same position as on 4wd. 3.2 is a v6 and i suppose thrtefore not possible to have a starter hole in position of the gearbox on the left picture. ( because of the v-formation) 2.4jtd has a f40 second gen. 1.9ers had m32 gearbox.
 

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I believe an extra part is required for Q4 which you can see here in the third picture:
That's the part that transmits the drive from the gearbox/diff to the transfer box for the outer shaft (splined output you can see on Q4 box). There is an inner shaft on the Q4 transfer box (similar to Q4 driveshaft) that passes through the outer shaft and engages with the inner drive of the diff. This provides the two outputs required for the Q4.
 

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Thanks for the extensive reply. Yeah I'm happy Alfa went with the Torsen system instead of of the Haldex systems that Saab and Vauxhall got. They all have the same F40 gearbox, but they're not interchangable. From a cost perspective you would expect the gearboxes within one model line to all be the same. Especially when hooked up to the same 3.2 engine, but it's an expensive guess to take.
I'll probably have to jump under a manual and non-manual to do some research, but was hoping somebody would maybe know.

Thanks to Alfahaka though I know there's at least one manual Q4 wagon in Australia, so I'm hoping there are more and one will be up for sale in the not too distant future.

If I hear back from FCA with numbers I'll post them here, pretty sure I'm not the only one looking for this unicorn of a vehicle ;)
Love your expression "Unicorn of a vehicle" Ferrari have their Prancing Horse. Perhaps this car should have a
"Unicornis Erectus"
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Really love this forum. You guys know so much!

All gearboxes I've seen appear to have the second shaft/opening where the Q4 transferbox could slot into, but you would need the extra piece I mentioned before to be able to have it attach to the Q4 transfer case.
Would anyone have a picture from the front underside of a Q4 car to see how it all lines up? I've been looking at diagrams in the eLearn thing for the 159 to see if I could find how the Q4 system attaches to the gearbox (and where that extra piece goes), but they've hidden them well. I miss the exploded views that other manufacturers have. However the lack of that in eLearn makes me believe it's all pretty straightforward. Otherwise they would've made a separate image for it.
 

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159 V6 Q4s are not making much money at the moment. There was a running/driving car available for £3.5k the other day, on this forum. Buying a complete car to use for spares would make a lot of sense. Is it feasible to import a 159 from UK to Australia and not register it, but instead use it for spares?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
159 V6 Q4s are not making much money at the moment. There was a running/driving car available for £3.5k the other day, on this forum. Buying a complete car to use for spares would make a lot of sense. Is it feasible to import a 159 from UK to Australia and not register it, but instead use it for spares?
It would have to be cut in half to be allowed to. Yeah they're a bit weird here ;) That said I also don't really want a UK car too much. They're usually very dirty with bolts snapping left and right. The only rust on my 13 year old 156 is a bit of peeling paint on one of the windscreen wipers haha.
Luckily there's plenty of wrecked sedans with Q4 here. Just not that many wagons. Sedan is exactly the same in terms of drive train, so I can pick one of those apart for not too much.

If that's the way to go though I would have to find a good manual 3.2 Ti first. Currently none for sale here, but those are more common and I have alerts out on all the usual websites for a manual Q4 wagon. My SO calls it an addiction. I guess she's not wrong.
 

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All gearboxes I've seen appear to have the second shaft/opening where the Q4 transferbox could slot into
Pretty sure that the Q2 box doesn't have the outer splined second drive output required for Q4 (my 2.4 jtdm doesn't have it) so you'd need a proper Q4 box
 
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