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Evening

Less than a week with my 159 TI 2.0 JTDM and it really feels like it has a lack of oomph below 2500rpm and no real push from the turbo above that (I am coming from a 1.9PD VW 140bhp and a 159 1.9 Ti before that).

It wasn't something I particularly noticed when test driving, but I'm wondering - does this sound like a fault? It had a new intercooler shortly before I bought it and I'm thinking that although the Turbo boost gauge shows it spooling up, I wonder if its not actually doing very much...?

Any suggestions (other than take it to a garage...!)

Thanks
 

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The 2.0 doesn't do much below 2500, especially when cold. There isn't much throttle response in first and second either. It should pull well in third once you get above 2500 or so, and pull well up to 4500.( It isn't a fast car by any means. )I find you have to drive it like a petrol to get the best out of it. It revs quite readily. It cruises at motorway speeds very well, but it just doesn't like pulling away at junctions.
 

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The 2.0 doesn't do much below 2500, especially when cold. There isn't much throttle response in first and second either. It should pull well in third once you get above 2500 or so, and pull well up to 4500.( It isn't a fast car by any means. )I find you have to drive it like a petrol to get the best out of it. It revs quite readily. It cruises at motorway speeds very well, but it just doesn't like pulling away at junctions.
Thanks

Thats pretty much what I'd anticipated to be fair - I recall having to "drive around" the lack of low-end torque with the 1.9 too.

Cheers!
 

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Something is wrong if you have to rev it past 2500 before you get an oomph...as you put it. Max torque (360 nm as standard) on the 2.0 is at just 1750 rpm on these and mine pulls like a train from just off idle (even with the tuning box switched off). A club members car was gutless below about 2500...although he thought it was normal before he drove mine.....turned out the EGR valve was not closing fully. After a replacement (used one) was fitted normal service was resumed. Just a suggestion.
 

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Something is wrong if you have to rev it past 2500 before you get an oomph...as you put it. Max torque (360 nm as standard) on the 2.0 is at just 1750 rpm on these and mine pulls like a train from just off idle (even with the tuning box switched off). A club members car was gutless below about 2500...although he thought it was normal before he drove mine.....turned out the EGR valve was not closing fully. After a replacement (used one) was fitted normal service was resumed. Just a suggestion.
Is that a garage check-it-for-me job or is there a way I can self-diagnose?

Thank you!
 

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You can check it with MES or AlfaOBD.
 

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Can confirm what Alfaitalia is saying, something must be amiss here. Even in stock disguise it's reasonably fast from 1,700rpm. It's the everything but smooth shifting gears that slows a bit down.

Only times when I find having to rev it
more than I'd prefer, due to too little power from idle, is when pulling off uphill with a very steep incline.
 

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Which power output version do you have?

If you have a 136bhp one it will never feel very fast as it's a heavy car, but should cruise ok once up to speed.

I would expect the power to come in sooner than 2500rpm though, it sounds like you may have an issue. Could be a boost leak, stuck turbo vanes etc.
 

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Sounds pretty standard to me.
These old 159 dervs are heavy and not very agile compared to modern cars.
My company once had a small fleet of these 2.0 jtdms, and they all felt a little dead.
 

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Sounds pretty standard to me.
These old 159 dervs are heavy and not very agile compared to modern cars.
My company once had a small fleet of these 2.0 jtdms, and they all felt a little dead.
Strange...torque is what you feel when you put your foot down....and the 2.0 has 360nm at just 1750 revs....putting that into perspective the 3.2 only kicks out 322nm at a highish 3800 rpm. As said a remap (or tuning box) will sort it....I'm up to a dyno proven 218 horses and a huge 459nm of torque. All on stock boost levels. We tried going a little higher....but visible smoke started to appear due to lack of air (oxygen)....don't want that. My man said that 250 horses and 500nm should be possible with more boost.....but then things start to get expensive and you start pushing the clutch, dmf and driveshaft limits. I'll stick were I am for that reason. Still spins the fronts changing from 2nd to 3rd in the dry if you push hard and 3rd to 4th in the rain. But my box is a remote control one so easy to turn of off if I'm not in the mood...or the wife is at the helm!
 

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Still spins the fronts changing from 2nd to 3rd in the dry if you push hard and 3rd to 4th in the rain.
You can part thanks that lousy Q2 "e-diff" for that. A Quaife LSD will really help - or maybe better tyres?
Torque is nice when you want to pull a heavy trailer up a hill, but horses simply makes the car fly. That's a fact.
The 2.0 JTDM's we had here of course wasn't remapped.
They had torque, but at 170 hp they really missed som horses to make the car move.
And so they had no "oomph" - at least to me. They just felt slow.
 

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Not really....

In physics, power is defined as the rate at which something does work. For cars, horsepower translates into speed. So if you want to go faster, and get up to speed quicker, you need more horsepower.

Torque, on the other hand, is the expression of a rotational or twisting force. In vehicles, the engines rotate around an axis, thus creating torque. Torque can be viewed as the “strength” of a vehicle. It is the force that rockets a sports car from 0-60 in seconds and pushes you back in the seat.
 

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Hp is what you need for a car to feel fast - not torque.

Focus on torque, if you plan on hauling trailers, and focus on horsepower if you’re looking for speed.
It's basic knowledge..

So a technical answer to the question of, “What makes acceleration: torque or horsepower?”, is torque.
But torque at the wheels—not at the engine.

And becauase acceleration is torque at the wheels, the real answer is horsepower, because horsepower encompasses not only the engine’s torque but the total torque that gets delivered to the wheels.
https://danielmiessler.com/study/horsepower/

Doesn't change the fact a std. 159 2.0 JTDM is heavy, not very agile or fast and lacks oomph.
 

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My 2.0 Jtdm is supposedly remapped to 200bhp by previous owner. It is strong in the mid range but still pretty gutless pulling away. I suspect EGR might need a clean then I’ll remap it with a specialist as I have my reservations about the current one. (Exhaust pipes soot up badly) but I still don’t reckon it’ll be particularly quick off the line.
 

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My 2.0 Jtdm is supposedly remapped to 200bhp by previous owner. It is strong in the mid range but still pretty gutless pulling away. I suspect EGR might need a clean then I’ll remap it with a specialist as I have my reservations about the current one. (Exhaust pipes soot up badly) but I still don’t reckon it’ll be particularly quick off the line.
I think you will find this is a combination of turbo lag and a heavy car but a knackered EGR valve won't help either!
 

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The 170bhp Giulietta certainly goes ok. Probably as its a fair bit lighter.

If you put our foot down at 40mph in 4th gear it is quite rapid.
 

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Exhaust tips normally stay clean with a properly working DPF...

Would be worth to investigate if they turn black from soot; perhaps an early indication the filter is on its way out (blow-by gasses?)

And as far as I can compare my 2.0 versus a TBI from a friend of mine, not much difference to tell actually.

Yet, mine is tweaked a bit. Still I don’t recall having it found slow, not in any way when it was stock for the first 20,000 km I owned it. Only thing what I got rid off, noticeably after the 3rd remap (a.o. dyno’d at 199 hp / 430 Nm, while at the hottest day of 2015), is that feeling that was there around 1,700 rpm as if it was chain-driven with some slack. When it was still stock (170 hp confirmed on the dyno as a grid test).
 

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The 170bhp Giulietta certainly goes ok. Probably as its a fair bit lighter.
Wife have a 170MA TCT - it's not exactly fast, but its not slow either.

Try drive a 159 3.2 with 260hp / 322Nm and then jump into a 159 2.0 JTDM 170hp/360Nm and you know that hp is what count for how fast a car is. You just need to use gears a little more.

Even a (optimistically) piggyback mapped 2.0 JTDM @ 218hp / 459 Nm will be slower, even it has way more torque than a stock 3.2 (and I highly doubt a 2.0 JTDM with stock parts (turbo) could ever reach 250hp/500Nm)
Worst is how badly all these remapped dervs smell and smoke
Hp is king...
 

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Wife have a 170MA TCT - it's not exactly fast, but its not slow either.

Try drive a 159 3.2 with 260hp / 322Nm and then jump into a 159 2.0 JTDM 170hp/360Nm and you know that hp is what count for how fast a car is. You just need to use gears a little more.

Even a (optimistically) piggyback mapped 2.0 JTDM @ 218hp / 459 Nm will be slower, even it has way more torque than a stock 3.2 (and I highly doubt a 2.0 JTDM with stock parts (turbo) could ever reach 250hp/500Nm)
Worst is how badly all these remapped dervs smell and smoke
Hp is king...
Horses for courses.

Some people prefer to have torque, others prefer BHP... how about we leave it at that and get back to actually helping the OP?
 
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