I've tried both (not quite back to back, but within weeks of each other). Realistically, I don't think the 30bhp difference warrants getting the more powerful car. If you really felt that the 140bhp engine was sluggish (which it isn't), you could easily remap the engine to 170bhp anyway (as they are both the exact same engine)

 

Thanks guys your head over heart arguments are swaying me..

..although I did feel that the 159 2.4 was a bit sluggish compared to the previous 156 2.4 (both MJet) so maybe I'm a bit picky. However I'm (nearly) an old man now so I should know better right ?

@Alistair, so 'the revenue' think you've got a 140 but you tell Direct Line you've modded right ? Otherwise it could be night-night time following the man with the big keyring - unless I'm mistaken.:tut:

James

 

Personally I think it's a no brainer as a company car, I worked out the saving on company car tax to be getting on for £70.00 a month for the 140 BHP car, that's including taking company fuel and at the higher rate. Without company fuel and at lower rate it's less clear cut, but the 140 felt brisk enough and as mentioned there's always a remap.....

 

I've not posted for a long time but as I'm considering a Giulietta to replace my 159 and this is of interest to me. Something to note is that in the next tax year 2012-2013 the 140 engine jumps four bands and sits in the 17% BIK narrowing the gap somewhat between the two engines. Worth looking at future outgoings as the gap narrows considerably. Year on year the criteria for the bandings drops pushing cars that sit under the 120 CO2 break into higher bands.

Comcar Alfa Romeo Giulietta 2.0 JTDm-2 140bhp Veloce - Company car tax calculator

I'd be interested to hear anyones thoughts on the differences in going to a Giulietta after a 159. I like them but wonder if the tax saving is worth it.

 

Russ,

Good call. Order now for delivery in June/July and you only get 8 months of 'low' tax BIK then it's 17% for the 140 or 19% for the 170 and not much difference in P11D price. Tricky decision indeed

James

 

No problem James - Happy to help.

Its one of those things which would have been annoying had you not known. I'm also considering a new 5 series or Volvo S60 as alternatives which seem a bit random but are within budget. The appeal of the Giulietta is the sportier image and lower tax bills. the best Co Car is probably the BMW 3 series efficient dynamics which are very tax efficient although need about 5k of options to make it feel good. Still only £140 BIK a month with options though compares to the £160 of the 170 Giulietta. the 520D is £185 and the Volvo S60 about £180. I won't entertain paying over £200 a month when there are so many nice cars available which are tax efficient.

I suppose we are veering off topic as it is the merits of the 140 against the 170 which we are discussing, which are somewhat negated for the company driver after this year. As a private buyer its not a massive difference so I'm not sure how it will sell.

 

Its one of those things which would have been annoying had you not known. I'm also considering a new 5 series or Volvo S60 as alternatives which seem a bit random but are within budget. The appeal of the Giulietta is the sportier image and lower tax bills. the best Co Car is probably the BMW 3 series efficient dynamics which are very tax efficient although need about 5k of options to make it feel good. .

Very interesting. I'm having very similar thoughts myself. I will probably stay with the opt out at work but the choices are very similar in the absence of the Giulia which I thought would be out around late this year when I did the deal on my Ti

The way our mileage allowance works I'm better off having a >2001cc diesel if economy is anything like reasonable. S60 2.4, 520d or C or E class 220/250 Sport nearly new start making more sense than a Giulietta QV, which itself is a better bet than the 170MA but much as I like the G it doesn't move me like the 159 and it is a bit small for my needs. Add that to a typical monthly fuel cost of -£60 versus a credit/benefit of roughly +£60 at our mileage rates and it's a big swing.

But I don't want to leave Alfa.

 

I tested both the 140 and 170 and found nothing that was that different that would make me spend the extra, this is also a company car and I could not see the justification and nor could they

I am interetsed to know more about the remap as I dont understand this, can someone please explain a a little for me?

 

Hi Russ

Do you really want to be seen in a Volvo or worse still a BMW ?? Presumably you heard about the differences between a hedgehog and a BMW ?

Of course we don't yet know the BIK figures for 2013/2014 and beyond yet, do we ?

My cars are nearly always overrunn by 6 months so I end -up with 3.5 year ciontracts so perhaps I ought to gamble on the low side.

@Powerscape.Regarding re-map this is an engine management issue. By changing timings of when diesel
is squirted in to teh cylinders (Ok I realise there's probably more to it than that) you can tune your engine (a bit like adding uber carbs to your Cortina's cross-flow engine).

Since this is now all done electronically and the parameters stored in flash memory (like in your USB sticks) you can, if you have the know-how, effectively upgrade your engines performance. BUT if you do engage teh services of a specialist who has this know-how you need to inform your insurers.. officially.

James

 

Hi Russ


@Powerscape.Regarding re-map this is an engine management issue. By changing timings of when diesel
is squirted in to teh cylinders (Ok I realise there's probably more to it than that) you can tune your engine (a bit like adding uber carbs to your Cortina's cross-flow engine).

Since this is now all done electronically and the parameters stored in flash memory (like in your USB sticks) you can, if you have the know-how, effectively upgrade your engines performance. BUT if you do engage teh services of a specialist who has this know-how you need to inform your insurers.. officially.

James

Cheers James, I like this idea

 

Yes it's a bugger about the jump in BIK, it doesn't happen for the petrols as far as I know.

 

The difference in weight of the engines is quite noticeable, apparently 2 mechanics can easily lift the mutli air, but 3 struggle with the 2.0JDTM, I would be curious to hear what you lot think of the drive, can you really not notice?

Does the resale value and desirability come into it at the end of the contract term? I can see the appeal of the 2.0 JDTM 140 for business miles but I don't know who would be prepared to pay top dollar for one second hand. I'm just thinking that if you want a second hand fuel efficient diesel, would you buy a Guilietta, where as a petrol head would go for the 170 MA?

I don't know, sorry if it is off topic a bit!

 

Hmm

BIK leap is even worse than first thought..

Budget 2011: company car tax - Parkers

just 1% less for the 140 (18%) vs 170(19%) after April 2012.

James

 

The 140BHP also only has 1 exhaust

 

Wrong - mine definitely has two!

 

Hi James,

I take you're point about BMW's but the new 5 series really is a good drive. I was very impressed and have a good offer on the table to take one. Its only my love of driving something different and having enjoyed my time in the 159 that is making me consider a Giulietta. Everyone at work thinks I'm daft to consider one before a 5 series but thats probably down to the perceived snob value. The Volvo also drives very well and is worth trying and there are some great deals about. The Volvo is also switching to stop start next month which drops the CO2 levels quite a bit. The 3 series is also nice car but I'm due to change in a few months and the new model is out early 2012 so will be out of date no matter how cost effective it is.

I'd actually dug a bit more after my first post and seen that the 140 jumps 5 bands and not 4 so the BIK difference will be minimal over the 170 in 2012. I expected them to make an announcement at the last budget about Car Tax post 2014 which they haven't done but I think we can all agree it will only become harder to run a high CO2 car. There's talk of them dropping the 3% diesel loading but I can't see that happening given how skint the govt is.

I'd suggest you try some of the newer models Jim as the 5 series in particular makes my 159 feel quite old fashioned.

I'm looking forward to trying the Giulietta and seeing how it drives and for the sake of a tenner or so a month in tax I'll certainly have the extra horsepower over the 140.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has driven both engines

Cheers

 

Russ

I'm absolutely sure that the BMW is a worthy if not great car in most aspects. The problem is that my psyche cannot cope with driving a marque which is an aspirational focal point for so many 'middle managers'. I know it's 'sensible' with high residuals etc.. but the whole BMW image thing is not for me. Those people wear clothes from GAP and eat at Pizza express for crying out loud. I now read that they now sell more 3 series than mondeos, aaargh.

I understand but no way can I empathise.. as one sage once said 'I'd rather stuff wasps up my @rse than drive a BMW'

Good luck with the decision. Mine is now almost made...

James

 

Hi James,

Haha I’ve always managed to avoid BMW’s myself and have always taken the leftfield option. When I got my current 159 I got the missus a GT Cloverleaf along so I don’t generally follow the herd. Part of the reasoning this time was saving myself tax and it is one area where BMW are strong. However I do feel like I will probably end up in a Giulietta which will be fun and tax efficient even if most of my peers will think I'm potty.

I probably wouldn’t put wasps up my **** instead mind.

Which car have you decided on?

Cheers

 

people still have a weird perception of Alfa's. They're as good as any other car today, if not better made. I was at a friends wedding recently and was talking to a guy who told me he drove a Honda. I told him I had an Alfa, and he said 'those are rubbish'! I asked him "Have you ever owned an Alfa in the past 15 years?" He said no. "Oh so you believe in hear-say then? Did you know the Earth is flat?" :lol:

 

I took both models out for a test drive on the same day. Although i was impressed with how much power the 140 bhp model had, i didnt like how that power was delivered. As soon as i touched the accelerator i seemed to get all the boost immediately then very little higher up the rev range as opposed to the 170 bhp which seemed to give a better, smoother boost throughout the full rev range... similar to my Golf 170bhp which i currently drive. Like i say, that was just what stuck in my mind after a 20 min ride in each and it was enough for me to order the 170 bhp.... which (hopefully) i should be picking up next week

 

Hello, PPL

Technical info from 140hp G engine , it is not just remaped.

Also the 2.0 JTDM 140 HP engine, shown in Fig. 1, from the JTDM (second generation MultiJet) family, differs from the 170 HP engine because it has a max. power of 140 HP at 3750 rpm and max. torque of 320 Nm at 1500 rpm in NORMAL mode and 350 Nm at 1750 rpm with Overboost in DYNAMIC mode.

Compared with the 170 HP version, the 140 HP version makes use of:

- A dedicated engine control unit;
- A dedicated and smaller variable geometry turbine;
- A dedicated air intake chamber without swirl valves;
- A dedicated, variable displacement oil pump.


Have a nice day.

 

I test drove the two back to back and I have to say I noticed a big difference in both power delivery and low down torque, it was enough to sway me and I ordered the 170.

A word of warning about the 5 series. What version did you test drive? The entry level cars drive vastly different to the specced up demos and I have to say the pauper spec 5 series a colleague has is the worst driving BMW I've ever experienced. (I think it's the dynamic pack, a 2.5k option which dramatically alters the way the car drives).


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Interested to see you are moving from a 120D SE to a Giuletta, similar to me. How did you rate the 1 series in comparison?. I got fed up with mine, but I think I made a mistake speccing the sports suspension it was way too hard, I wasn't chuffed with the steering feel either and don't get me started on the gearbox!!. I've got a 3 series (320D SE) for a few months now until the G arrives and it's far better car all round. The Alfa is going to have to be damn good to match it.

 

I've had the 120 for 4 and a half years now and up until last summer I'd had very few problems with it. Since then though I've had multiple ECU problems, glow plug issues, traction control and ABS issues, the brakes seized resulting in new discs, sensors and pads on three corners and my auto wipers have consistently had a mind of their own. As it has done 67000 now I kind of take those as part of car ownership, I've had worse.

My main issue with the car was that it was more than a bit dull, like you I found there was very little feel in the steering and the run flats did my head in with road noise. I changed to normal tyres and now the wind noise does my head in. Coupled with 42mpg as opposed to the promised 58 (to be fair I do drive it like I've nicked it) and it being useless in the snow, I wouldn't buy another one. All those issues aside, it has been a really good car in most respects but I just never loved it. For blatting up and down the country though it was good.

The 320d on the other hand is an excellent car but again I find it incredibly dull.

The final straw was that I found the excellent customer service I received as owner of a nearly new BMW evaporated once the car got a bit older, suddenly the red carpet stopped rolling out and I was treated with a fair bit of snobbery at my two local dealerships.

Initially I loved BMW ownership but that has worn off a lot, also they are incredibly common. I fell in love with the Giulietta and regard it as a genuine 1 series rival, I really hope I'm not disappointed.

@ Russ, I've gone for the TomTom over the more expensive built in Nav, it seems a no brainer to me and most seem to feel it is better anyway.

 

Afternoon All,

I test drove both models at Corkhills on Saturday and the 170 certainly had more zip but if I hadn't have driven it the 140 would have seemed ok. I will be ordering in the next couple of weeks once spec has been finalised. The 5 series I drove was reasonably standard and seemed to drive pretty well to me but in the end I fancy sticking with the Alfa brand. I currently have a white 159 with red leather and I'm tempted by the same again but I really should try something different. The colour options don't seem fantastic to me.

Can anyone suggest worthwhile options or an opinion on the Nav. Is the Tom tom integration any good? Seems a far cheaper option.

I am looking at the following: Nav, Double Sunroof, Reverse Parking, Upgraded brakes, Tinted Windows and 18" wheels (spoked ones).

 

I am now fully decided on ordering a Giulietta and just need to decide on spec etc. Interesting to hear the feedback on BMW service levels dropping off something I have heard before. I always feel a bit unworthy going into a BMW dealer even though chances are you earn more than most of them. I'm not sure they can continue to be seen as high class when everyone has one. Thanks for your feedback on the Tomtom. Do you need to purchase a specific Tom tom unit from an Alfa dealer or will any standard Tom tom fit. There would be no way I would purchase the Sat Nav with my own money but as its my company I'm less inclined to worry although I will pay a few more quid in BIK tax.

 

It's a specific tom-tom if you want to use all the features. It's 230 quid from Alfa accessories or your dealer. I'll let you know how good it is when I pick mine up on Saturday. ;-)


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Apparently dedicated nav has some special features when you are in D mode. Anyone confirm?

 

Perhaps it does the same as the full satnav - g-force meter & power/torque meter

 

Have just rolled over the 1000 miles on my 140, and the engine seems to be loosening up nicely.

Have averaged 48.4 mpg so far, and I am still only on the second tank of diesel since I bought it (just!).