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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi folks I'm new to the Alfa world and have just bought a 1970 1750 GTV and love it, but have a slight issue with the starter. Occassionally it just clicks when I try to start it. The fault is intermittent and I thought it was the battery but it isn't so I'd like to overhaul the starter. I'm guessing it's under the carbs (can't actually see it)! Is it best to remove the carbs to get it out? Has anyone overhauled one of these starters? Any tips/guides please? What wears out aside from the brushes? Many thanks for your help.
 

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I had a similar problem on my 1750 spider. I fitted a relay to the ignition and fingers crossed it has been fine for the past 12 months.. well worth trying for a couple of quid.. worst case you have removed the load from the ignition.





Hi folks I'm new to the Alfa world and have just bought a 1970 1750 GTV and love it, but have a slight issue with the starter. Occassionally it just clicks when I try to start it. The fault is intermittent and I thought it was the battery but it isn't so I'd like to overhaul the starter. I'm guessing it's under the carbs (can't actually see it)! Is it best to remove the carbs to get it out? Has anyone overhauled one of these starters? Any tips/guides please? What wears out aside from the brushes? Many thanks for your help.
 

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Hi folks I'm new to the Alfa world and have just bought a 1970 1750 GTV and love it, but have a slight issue with the starter. Occassionally it just clicks when I try to start it. The fault is intermittent and I thought it was the battery but it isn't so I'd like to overhaul the starter. I'm guessing it's under the carbs (can't actually see it)! Is it best to remove the carbs to get it out? Has anyone overhauled one of these starters? Any tips/guides please? What wears out aside from the brushes? Many thanks for your help.
Need to get the carbs off but as Rod said fit a relay first, it often cures the problem by taking the load off the ignition switch contacts which degenerate over time, and its a lot easier
 

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2017 Guila 2.0 Tbi Lusso spec, 1972 S2 Spider Junior, wife drives 939 Spider, + Abarth 595
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If the solenoid is just clicking it means not enough current flow is available to turn the starter, or the solenoid is not actuating fully, if that is so a relay will help. But if the current flow is poor you need to check for resistance on the + and - to the starter. Make sure all the connections between earth leads and ground are bright and tight, any corrosion will provide resistant which will drop the current available to turn the starter, clean the contact surfaces to bare metal. You have one earth lead from the battery to the bodywork and there should be a second one from the bell housing to the bulkhead.

If none of the above works it is most likely going to be the same contact issue but in the wiring in the starter, then the carbs have to come off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Need to get the carbs off but as Rod said fit a relay first, it often cures the problem by taking the load off the ignition switch contacts which degenerate over time, and its a lot easier
Right OK I'll give it a go. Many thanks for the replies everybody.
 

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could be starter, could also be a failing Ign switch.

fit a starter relay no matter....as said above it takes the load off the ign. switch and might cure your problem there and then.

a schematic here, it is very easy to do.
In the spider, I used a 20A or 30A fused 4 pin relay (neater than a seperate fuse in line) screwed to RH inner wing, and a few lengths of wire (1,5mm² and 3,0 or 3,3mm² gauge), and a couple of spade connectors and a large eyelet connector for main feed on starter.
Mount relay on inner wing close to starter (shorter distance the better)
Use the thicker gauge wire for the main live feed to relay pin # 30
the trigger wire from starter solenoid > #87 of relay might even be long enough to fit straight to the relay (it was on my car)

nb: Remove battery lead prior to any work near the starter, unless you like fireworks;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
could be starter, could also be a failing Ign switch.

fit a starter relay no matter....as said above it takes the load off the ign. switch and might cure your problem there and then.

a schematic here, it is very easy to do.
In the spider, I used a 20A or 30A fused 4 pin relay (neater than a seperate fuse in line) screwed to RH inner wing, and a few lengths of wire (1,5mm² and 3,0 or 3,3mm² gauge), and a couple of spade connectors and a large eyelet connector for main feed on starter.
Mount relay on inner wing close to starter (shorter distance the better)
Use the thicker gauge wire for the main live feed to relay pin # 30
the trigger wire from starter solenoid > #87 of relay might even be long enough to fit straight to the relay (it was on my car)

nb: Remove battery lead prior to any work near the starter, unless you like fireworks;)
Schematic doesn't seem to have loaded on the post? Could you retry please.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If the solenoid is just clicking it means not enough current flow is available to turn the starter, or the solenoid is not actuating fully, if that is so a relay will help. But if the current flow is poor you need to check for resistance on the + and - to the starter. Make sure all the connections between earth leads and ground are bright and tight, any corrosion will provide resistant which will drop the current available to turn the starter, clean the contact surfaces to bare metal. You have one earth lead from the battery to the bodywork and there should be a second one from the bell housing to the bulkhead.

If none of the above works it is most likely going to be the same contact issue but in the wiring in the starter, then the carbs have to come off.
I've had a look for the earth strap from the bell-housing to the bulkhead and can't see it. Where is it usually, underneath or on top? Where should it connect on the bulkhead?
 

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On my (Spider) its between the top of the bell housing, maybe the starter motor and the bulk head immediately behind. Look carefully elsewhere, it could be different on yours, if you dont have an earth lead that certainly will be the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hello folks,
Update on this issue: have now moved house and organised the place so I can now address the starter problem at last. I'm going to take the starter off and overhaul it before I refit it and wire in a relay. But, are these lightweight starters that lots of places seem to sell worth having? Are they more powerful or just lighter weight? I'm told that the standard starter only just copes because of the high-compression engine, so uprating the existing starter or fitting a more powerful one strikes me as a good idea? Thoughts please?
 

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personally I like having original things, where feasable, rebuilt, as I know they will fit back perfect and work:)

there seem to be 'light weight gear reduction' starters and 'lightweight high torque' starters.

what I have read people sometimes use, is the Spider S4 series starter, which is lighter and high torque.
CA sells one, but fitted with an 8 tooth pinion and says they fit all 1300-1750 nords
(130 GBP)
https://classicalfa.com/products.ph...HT-STARTER-MOTOR-%2d-3-BOLT-MOUNT-%2d-8-TOOTH

does your car have a bracket fitted to the engine mount to hold the weight of the original big starter?
 

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You could save yourself a load of time and fit the relay first.. if it cures the problem result.. if not then move onto the motor?


Hello folks,
Update on this issue: have now moved house and organised the place so I can now address the starter problem at last. I'm going to take the starter off and overhaul it before I refit it and wire in a relay. But, are these lightweight starters that lots of places seem to sell worth having? Are they more powerful or just lighter weight? I'm told that the standard starter only just copes because of the high-compression engine, so uprating the existing starter or fitting a more powerful one strikes me as a good idea? Thoughts please?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
personally I like having original things, where feasable, rebuilt, as I know they will fit back perfect and work:)

there seem to be 'light weight gear reduction' starters and 'lightweight high torque' starters.

what I have read people sometimes use, is the Spider S4 series starter, which is lighter and high torque.
CA sells one, but fitted with an 8 tooth pinion and says they fit all 1300-1750 nords
(130 GBP)
https://classicalfa.com/products.ph...HT-STARTER-MOTOR-%2d-3-BOLT-MOUNT-%2d-8-TOOTH

does your car have a bracket fitted to the engine mount to hold the weight of the original big starter?
re: the bracket, I don't know. I can't really see the starter at the moment until I take the carbs off. I like the idea of the lightweight high-torque S4 starter though. Thanks for the tip off. I will look into that.
 

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My Giulietta has a Wosp starter, lightweight reduction gear type, which spins the engine with far more vigour than the newish standard job on my 1750. If I have to replace the 1750 one again I’d pay the extra for the WOsp unit. As said check wiring first though.

Jonathan
 

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My Giulietta has a Wosp starter, lightweight reduction gear type, which spins the engine with far more vigour than the newish standard job on my 1750. If I have to replace the 1750 one again I’d pay the extra for the WOsp unit. As said check wiring first though.

Jonathan
Jonathan - is that you that had a very detailed engine rebuild thread on the alfabb quite some time ago?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The only way to get this relay job done properly was take the carbs off. In doing that I've found the throttle linkage that attaches to the inlet manifold is wobbly and looks worn out. Is this what Alfaholics refer to as the throttle quadrant? This linkage with it's single mounting point looks rubbish to me. Has anyone done any mods to improve it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hello folks...slightly scary moment. The new fused relay is now fitted. As soon as I tried the car after fitting the relay I noticed a very slight delay between turning the ignition off and the starter disengaging that wasn't there before I fitted the relay. I assumed the relay was taking a fraction of a second to disconnect the circuit. Jumped in just now (about 3 weeks later) to prepare for a trip tomorrow and the starter continued to turn over even after I had turned off the ignition and taken the key out! Luckily it didn't start. What do you think....crappy relay from ebay, or knackered ignition switch? As the relay on the circuit is the only thing that has changed I'm going to put another relay on and see what occurs. Anyone got experience of this? What is the best make of relay to buy? Any advice gratefully received. It gave me a bit of a 'moment' to be honest!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Mine is a lighter weight, and gear reduction starter, that looks like an original, from Classic Alfa, as fitted to S4 Spiders.
They do 3 bolt 9 tooth, and 3 bolt 8 tooth. Cheaper too.
https://classicalfa.com/products.php?product=EL013-LIGHTWEIGHT-STARTER-MOTOR-%2d-3-BOLT-MOUNT-%2d-9-TOOTH
I have just fitted one of these. It doesn't sound very nice when using it. I appreciate that it will take a while for the pinion on the new starter to bed in against the flywheel teeth & the engine 'flies' over now, but the harsh noise makes me grit my teeth when using it.
 
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