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Discussion Starter #1
Hi :)

To make a long story short.

for 1.5 months ago i got a wierd noise from the cambelt area of the car on low rews, checked the cambelt and it had worn down to twice its sice in width :( Luckly i had not snapped just happy that i saw it in time.

Got a time at a local workshop (no alfa workshop) as soon as possible for a cambelt change got it back after 2 days.
did not notice anything strange of first startup, but after maybe 10 minutes of driving to work i felt it was running rough/vibrating on idle, but was running fine above 1000rpm (also the engine light was flashing at low revs)
Gave the meacinc a call and told him and i brought the car back in, missfire on rear cylinder bank , got my sparkplugs changed and he went over some gaskets and so on he siad.

Got my car back after 2 days agin and still bad idle and i was told that most likely its the cable net for the engine that is worn down and need to be changed, i said ok i will go with the bad idle for now.

Now it starting to get worse a couple of weeks after missfires up to 3000 rpm :(

Whats going on ? did he not use the corrects tools maybe ? camlocks... :ermm:

//Tobias
 

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It would be all too easy to suspect that the timing is out but there is really only one way to check that - set the engine to TDC, take off the cam covers and try to put the camlocks on it.

It is always possible that a coil pack is failing after being disturbed. A 'worn' wiring loom sounds like a poor excuse though.

Are there any stored error codes?
 

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Did your mechanic use proper camlocks? For 3.2 are different than those for 3.0/2.5 versions. Not many mechanics know that, especially if they have not worked on Alfa V6 before.
 

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Interesting. I have a 166 3.2 with the same problem - I bought it that way. As a precaution I had it inspected and the timing was fine and the recent cambelt change was correct. The error code is cylinders 1 2 3. Pinched wiring is a possibility and I've bought but not yet installed a 2nd hand replacement part which itself looks scruffy! Meanwhile another possibility is that the valves need lapping. I'm puzzled! Let me know if you get further with this - who did your cambelt work?
 

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Hi,

I just did the same after an engine swap. The cable harnesses are rather brittle after all these years. I changed MAF, swapped out a lot of other components for known working parts, checked timing... It all came down to me swapping the cable harnesk out and magically it all started to work. Are there codes for the Lambdas?

Var det Auto Alfa som bytte rem? Om inte annat så har de ju gott renommé och god kunskap om dessa bilar. <--- Just a garage recommendation between Swedes.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Did your mechanic use proper camlocks? For 3.2 are different than those for 3.0/2.5 versions. Not many mechanics know that, especially if they have not worked on Alfa V6 before.
Interesting. I have a 166 3.2 with the same problem - I bought it that way. As a precaution I had it inspected and the timing was fine and the recent cambelt change was correct. The error code is cylinders 1 2 3. Pinched wiring is a possibility and I've bought but not yet installed a 2nd hand replacement part which itself looks scruffy! Meanwhile another possibility is that the valves need lapping. I'm puzzled! Let me know if you get further with this - who did your cambelt work?
It would be all too easy to suspect that the timing is out but there is really only one way to check that - set the engine to TDC, take off the cam covers and try to put the camlocks on it.

It is always possible that a coil pack is failing after being disturbed. A 'worn' wiring loom sounds like a poor excuse though.

Are there any stored error codes?
Thanks for the Answers.
The error codes was cylinders 1 2 3, and after changed sparkplugs the code changed to random missfire on cylinders i think it was. I do not have a obd reader on my own.
Im not really sure what to do next :(
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi,

I just did the same after an engine swap. The cable harnesses are rather brittle after all these years. I changed MAF, swapped out a lot of other components for known working parts, checked timing... It all came down to me swapping the cable harnesk out and magically it all started to work. Are there codes for the Lambdas?

Var det Auto Alfa som bytte rem? Om inte annat så har de ju gott renommé och god kunskap om dessa bilar. <--- Just a garage recommendation between Swedes.
Maybe i have to change all the cabels aswell then :/ but it was running so smoth before the cambelt change.

yes, i live close to gothenburg so maybe i shuld ask if they can look at it at autoalfa :)
 

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I always suggest buying a cheap OBD reader for this sort of thing. £20 gets you something good enough to read generic codes of almost any car you are likely to come across. If you want to be more hands on with your Alfa, then get a copy of MES and a laptop, plus a set of adapter leads so you can interrogate all the systems.

Without some sort of logical diagnostic approach and some test equipment, all you can do is just chuck bits at it until you solve it. There really aren't that many symptoms that have a guaranteed 'this is your problem' solution.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I always suggest buying a cheap OBD reader for this sort of thing. £20 gets you something good enough to read generic codes of almost any car you are likely to come across. If you want to be more hands on with your Alfa, then get a copy of MES and a laptop, plus a set of adapter leads so you can interrogate all the systems.

Without some sort of logical diagnostic approach and some test equipment, all you can do is just chuck bits at it until you solve it. There really aren't that many symptoms that have a guaranteed 'this is your problem' solution.
Can i use this ? along with fiat ecu scan? http://cdn1.teknikmagasinet.com/storage/ma/0d5772d664114edc882a5b878c9bf01c/4f97051467d84a46bc68e0cd9f1df4d6/800-898-0-png.Png/59BF3D4FB64FAFF4F541F2E9BB39C32E11BB4DED/160094b.png
 

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A couple of years ago, when changing the cambelt etc on my 166 3.0 V6 Super, we had it all back together and it ran like a pig. Turns out that a coil pack had failed. Changed it (for about £20) and it ran like a dream. I don't think they like being disturbed! Definitely worth checking every single coil pack.

Good luck and hope it's all OK...
 

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Coil packs are certainly an issue on cars getting on for ten years old or more and are worth a try. Does anybody know how to check them ?. Can you carry out an ohm's resistance check for example ?.
Back to the misfire problem ....... assuming that the cam timing is good then the two main sensors on the engine could be the problem. These are the crankshaft position sensor and the camshaft position sensor. Both feed the ECU and can cause a misfire when dodgy. They are not too expensive or difficult to change, hence this suggestion. The crankshaft sensor used to be bolted next to the front crankshaft pulley on early V6's reading teeth on the pulley, the later 3.2's now have it at the rear of the engine and reads teeth on the engine flywheel. Crank sensor is under the rear of the engine held by 6mm allen head bolts. The camshaft sensor is on the end of the exhaust cam on cylinders 1-2-3. That is the left hand rear head viewed from front and is ( of course ) the left hand exhaust camshaft.

I do know for sure that if your cam timing is out that the cam sensor tells the ECU and puts the engine light on. Hope this helps, alfamail.
 

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Regarding ODB reader you can pop over to Club Alfa Romeo Svezias forum and perhaps there are cables with jumpers available there.
When changing the timing belt a bit of man handling of the loom may take place so it might be the that. But you need to make a plan on how to move on before you start.
 

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The easy way to diagnose coils:

Check the misfire code with your code reader or torque app on your mobile phone - if it says P0304 (for example) it is cyl 4. Clear code, swap cyl 4 coil with cyl 5 and run car, if misfire code is now P0305 then it is the coil and a very easy fix.

Of course if it's cyl 1-2-3 on the V6 then it's not so easy...
 

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I had a collapsed fuel line to the rear bank causing a mis-fire on all 3 cylinders, it was OK at idle but missed soon as more fuel was required. The line had a hard nylon inner that can be twisted (by me) and difficult to see, but can be felt.
 

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Got to be the coil pack insulation failing, or it's physically damaged under there. As SV says, whip it out and swap it with another then check that the fault moves. A faulty new plug isn't unheard of either, so be logical, one step at a time.

A good coil pack will work fine even if the plug well oil seal has failed and it's full of oil too.
 

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On the topic of the looms 'wearing out', I've recently been working on a 166 loom to strip out unwanted systems for a project I'm working on, and although the outer sheathing and rubber boots on a lot of the engine bay and external sections are pretty tired, the actual cable insulation itself has all been in good order. It seems more likely to me that any problems with the coil/injector loom are likely to be due to careless reassembly leading to trapped and chafed wires.

To try and clarify what I said about the coil pack and oil leaks....if the plug well filled with oil due to a failed plug well oil seal on the cam cover, a good coil pack won't care. The seal on the plug will be good enough to keep it dry. But, if the coil pack seal to the plug is poor, it can fill with oil and that can cause trouble.

The fact you can see HT tracking suggests the coil has broken down though.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for all the answers so far.
The car is running 90% better now after i changed one of the coils :) still not perfect on idle but much better overall :)

pretty clear on the pictutre below why it were a missfire :p
 

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