164: self leveling suspension
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That's interesting! I never knew it was an option! It therefore goes without saying that unfortunately, I can't help much! However, there used to be a self-levelling option on some other cars of that era and I think it worked on the rear dampers. I believe the system was produced by Boge (later taken over by Sachs) and marketed under the name "Nivomat". As far as I am aware, it was sel-contained in the rear dampers, so if you change the springs and dampers you should be able to stop the self-levelling.
Good article here:
Self-leveling suspension
but I don't know if that is the system Alfa used on the 164!
Good article here:
Self-leveling suspension
but I don't know if that is the system Alfa used on the 164!
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I've checked my manual for the 1989-1993 12V V6 and it makes no mention of a self-levelling suspension system. It is also not listed as an option in the technical bulletins. Are you referring to the Controlled Damping Suspension option, by any chance?
I have German and Dutch Pricelists from "88, "89 and "90 and this was optional for only the 3.0 V6 version and incombination with climate controle. Costs where in 1990 $2700, € 3700 or in old dutch guilders fl 8000,=.
Thnx for the onfo, i already send a mail to ZF-Boge in Germany (no response yet). Yes we also checked some manuals but could not find anything. The owner had a instruction manual and there's a little drawing inside it.
The oil reservoir is the same as the steeringoil.
It's connected to the steeringpump.
The rearaxle has a height sensor and a pressure regulator. Will try to scan the drawing and translate the Dutch text.
If the trunk is to much loaded the suspension will be automaticly filled to the normal level. It's a great option but hard to find info and the dampers.
The 156 had this also and was called Nivomat, will check it with the local Alfa dealer if this is the same.
Thnx for the onfo, i already send a mail to ZF-Boge in Germany (no response yet). Yes we also checked some manuals but could not find anything. The owner had a instruction manual and there's a little drawing inside it.
The oil reservoir is the same as the steeringoil.
It's connected to the steeringpump.
The rearaxle has a height sensor and a pressure regulator. Will try to scan the drawing and translate the Dutch text.
If the trunk is to much loaded the suspension will be automaticly filled to the normal level. It's a great option but hard to find info and the dampers.
The 156 had this also and was called Nivomat, will check it with the local Alfa dealer if this is the same.
I'm pretty certain the Nivomat system was entirely self-contained in the dampers, so if it had a separate reservoir and use the steering pump, it must have been something diferent. The Nivomat system uses the movement of the wheels over bumps to "pump up" a reservoir which then supplements the road spring.
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Certainly the Thema one has a seperate pump & reservoir so I can't imagine there would be a completely different one fitted to the Alfa. But being Italian, you never know
Found this, page 22.
http://download.lanciak.hu/THEMA/Thema 8.32 service manual/Suspension and wheels(Thema).pdf
Seems it is run off the power steering system. You learn something new every day!
Found this, page 22.
http://download.lanciak.hu/THEMA/Thema 8.32 service manual/Suspension and wheels(Thema).pdf
Seems it is run off the power steering system. You learn something new every day!
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And its bought back the nightmare of accumulators, green LHM fluid and split octopus regulators
Do you have any picture of this system on your Alfa 164 . The picture of rear suspension and spheres ? I would like to see pictures .
thanks
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Fasani, might you be able to answer a couple of questions about the self-levelling system on your car? I would assume that there is some kind of ECU (Steuergerät) in the trunk connected to the system. Have you ever seen it, and does it have cabling with a "T"[est] connector, you know, the Fiat 3-pin type? I'm just trying to "connect the dots", there is a particular Marelli module—M15A—that is for testing "Niveauregulierung" with the Fiat Lancia Tester and I'm wondering if this is the system that it was designed to test. Looking at the code in the third eprom of the module there appears such terms as "compressor", "solenoid left", "solenoid right", "compressor relay", "sensor on the shock absorber", "pneumatic circuit", "did the fzg[?] alter the niveau position?" in short, all vocabulary related to self-levelling control. Thanks!
I'd love to see a photo of the control unit if you can find it.
I'd love to see a photo of the control unit if you can find it.
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In the meantime I've stumbled into some documentation (see below) that seems to concord with Fasani's self-levelling unit. Importantly it differs from the Boge Nivomat system in that it has an electronic element, il comando e’elettronico,—not present in the Boge system—which very possibly interfaces with the Marelli Tester. I first thought that a control unit or computer would be located in the trunk, but from the illustration below (see the squarish box with keypad in the upper lefthand corner), it is more likely to be located in the cabin, probably somewhere in or on the dash or middle console. The invention is described "Sospensione posteriore autolivellante della Tempra SW; il comando e' electtronico". The exact name of the Marelli test module M15A is "Marelli Niveauregulierung Tempra SW". I think we may have a match here folks. The manufacturer of the system may be by Magneti Marelli itself (module names tend to state the manufacturer, like Bosch, Siemens, TWR, etc., followed by the system, then the specific auto). The dates provided inside the third eprom for the creation of the two parts of the code are "14/01/1991" and "13/05/1991". Marelli modules often postdate the car year, so that's just two years after Fasani's 1989 164.
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Del 42sa2, you hit the nail on the head, those two (fantastic) videos show the system that Fasani describes, a system without any electronic (ecu) intervention. Now that leaves us with the dilemma of identifying the system used on the so-called Niveauregulierung Tempra SW that seems to require an ecu that interfaces with the Marelli Tester via test module M15A. I searched similar words provided in your videos on youtube and came up with one that fully documents the CDS suspension (Controlled Dampening Suspension) on the Lancia Thema 8.32 (later wedded to the Alfa 164 QV Q4):
The title is a misnomer, as it has nothing to do with self leveling! It's a magnificent video showing all aspects of the CDS system via real car footage and vivid graphics.
And here is the sister video dedicated to the Alfa 164 QV, which is even more detailed than the Lancia video.
If you happen to find information on the Tempra (perhaps Croma, too) self-leveling system, please share. The attached jpg shows it listed as an option (sospensioni posteriori autolivellanti).
The title is a misnomer, as it has nothing to do with self leveling! It's a magnificent video showing all aspects of the CDS system via real car footage and vivid graphics.
And here is the sister video dedicated to the Alfa 164 QV, which is even more detailed than the Lancia video.
If you happen to find information on the Tempra (perhaps Croma, too) self-leveling system, please share. The attached jpg shows it listed as an option (sospensioni posteriori autolivellanti).
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Yes, yes, all very nice....
...but am I the only one salivating over that lovely, pristine rear crossmember at 16m 10s on the second video?!
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