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Discussion Starter #1
I had nearly got the 164 ready for MoT when she fell down an inspection pit and broke the diff. I`m now again on the cusp of scrapping it. But I feel the fault, for once, is not the car`s and I miss her. A smoking Audi diesel is a deeply dispiriting substitute.

So, now that I`ve been kindly promised a diff unit, can anyone tell me if it can be changed with the engine in place, perhaps removing the wing if necessary? I really, really don`t want to have to take the lump out again within twelve months...
 

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What sort of 164? I only know about the old 12V ones and I think their diffs are part of the gearbox casting rather than separate.
 

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I think the title implied an auto...in which case, no, you have to split the auto box to get at the diff.

A manual is another matter - AFAIK, it is possible in-situ to pop the diff casing off and drop the diff, but TBH, even though it's a pig to get at the starter bolts, I'd probably drop the box out, or maybe just drop the whole thing and split it out of the car to work on the box.

Maybe some pictures of the damage?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
diff for manual

Sorry, I should have said that it`s a 24v 3 litre manual.
I`ve removed the drive shaft and the cover on the end of the diff. casing, hoping to be able to pull out the damaged drive flange & gear - but it does`nt want to come out.
So my question is: can the gearbox be removed on its own? It does`nt look as if the diff. can come off as an isolated unit, but I hope I might be wrong on this. Hoping for a steer...
 

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You can remove the box with the engine in situ....but it's a hell of a lot of awkward work. Some 'highlights' include removing the exhaust manifolds, starter motor, driveshafts, nearside suspension. It's not really that bad to remove the entire engine/gearbox/subframe assembly and then you've got a far easier job on your hands to then work on the box itself. If the problem is limited to the diff/sidegears, then you can work on that alone without having to take the box off the engine.

It's a long time since I had a 164 but I thought you could actually get at the diff cover in situ? Anyone confirm or refute that??

If you can get that cover off the back, then the diff just drops out.

What are the fault symptoms by the way? A mate had a 24V gearbox in a kit car some years back, he did about 100 yards then it spat a tooth off the output shaft pinion. To fix that would require a replacement output shaft and matching crownwheel, also needs a total box stripdown to get at the bits. Actually quite a nice job once you have the box on the bench. If your problem is containted in the diff itself, then if you can drop the rear cover off and get the crownwheel/diff asembly out OK, then it's easy enough and won;t involve getting any deeper into the actual box.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for this, Chris. I think the output shaft/coupling is sheared. I don`t believe the diff is damaged. There was no drive to the wheel when the car dropped its front wheel down the pit so the force was an entirely vertical one. Subsequently it would transmit about 2% of power with a carefully slipped clutch, enough to help manoeuvering on the flat; too much power and loss of drive with grinding noise, not the intermittent clunk of a missing tooth on a diff. As if two fractured ends could mesh intermittently under the lightest load.
 

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Fingers crossed it's just the diff then - that's the easiest of the repairs (as long as you can find one!). You can of course put a Q2 or Quaiffe in there, but that's no longer a cheap option like it used to be and you'd also have issues with the lack of a speedo drive gear lug on the diff core to resolve.

A thought - might be worth the agro of pulling the right side intermediate shaft - not likely, but it's just vaguely possible the end of that broke off - it's splined into the diff. Easiest method I can think of would be undo the right side CV from the flange, undo the 3 M6 bolts holding the intermediate shaft bearing retainer onto the bearing carrier/engine mount casting then the intermediate shaft will slide out to the right (might want a gentle tap). Hardest part of that will be getting at the heads of the 3 M6 bolts - they are a bit awkward but should be do-able in situ without having to remove too much, maybe the oil filter to ease access.

A long shot TBH, might not be worth the hassle if you end up having to pull the power unit anyway.


ETA, just spotted your comment at the top where you say you have a diff on offer....easy for me to say, but given that, worth the effort to revive it!
 

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Try and have a look on either autolusso's web site or alfa workshop as one has a pic guide to changing the diff during a Quaiffe replacement. It might give you a few tips on what's stuck.It's on a GTA 147 I think but the v6 gearboxes are fairly the same They use the same diff I think or they are inter changeable but not 100% Might bbe getting confused.

I've just spent a few months restoring the top end and engine bay on mine and with in 2 weeks it's back to where I started.Feel your pain but you obviously love her :inlove:

Don't give up just yet these 164's are one of the best of the cars . You must persevere :rolleyes: :thumbs:
 

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It is probably the diff. Blew it on my 24v 164 too. It is the weakest part of the transmission. If you haven't damaged your casing great. Either buy a new diff or drop in a Q2 - stonger and eliminates the issue. Apparently the ones for a 166 fit but need a minor mod to get the speedo gear to work. It's what I would do if faced with the situation again. As it stands I bought a second hand geardbox and stopped booting it in first.
 
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