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164 24v non start in Stratos Kit

2K views 23 replies 4 participants last post by  ChrisS 
#1 ·
Hi all,
New to this very nice site. Have a 24v engine from 164 I have installed in a LB Stratos kit and am having issues starting her up . Suspecting that the ECU needs a signal from the immobilizer ( which I am not using) to start. See that ECU pin 81 goes to the immobilizer controller . Have tried grounding it to no avail . Does anyone know if putting 12 volts to that will help or hurt??
 
#2 ·
It was a long time back, but I did mess with a 24V 164 that had 'issues'. I recall that the immobiliser (assuming it is the OEM Alfa CODE system) communicates with the ECU using a serial protocol rather than just a simple volts or ground type setup. I also recall that the two units are coded together - you can't mix & match parts without getting the pair synced up.

Lacking the CODE unit, unless you can get the ECU reprogrammed, I don't think you are likely to get any joy with it. Is Gus from Alfatune still on here? He could certainly advise if not actually sort it for you.

You may be looking at sourcing a complete ECU/CODE/keys set, or perhaps going aftermarket ECU to get you going.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the info Chris. I can check with them .
I do know of another kit that is using the 24v engine and ECU and had no problems , so it can work . He has a different part number of ECU , I might look into that as well . The funny thing is I even have a pulse from the ECU to the ignition amplifiers and a running fuel pump !
 
#5 ·
I guess it depends on whether the donor had the CODE immobiliser or not. The 155 V6 from the same era had the same ECU, but came without CODE until 1996. I was fault finding on my own 155 many years back and swapped in a non-CODE ECU. It ran fine.

It’s probably just not firing the injectors.
 
#6 ·
Well here is what is strange. It is firing the injectorsvas we smell fuel from the exhaust pipes when we crank it over. Plus, I can detect a rhythmic pulse from the ECU at the inputs to the ( new ) ignition amplifiers that trigger the coils!!
12 volts to the coils and grounds verified too ! Now what ??
 
#7 ·
Mmmm, now that is weird....

OK, start with the basics - assume nothing.

Did you strip this engine & ECU from the donor or did you buy it from someone else as a package?

What sort of fuel pump are you using?

What fuel pressure are you seeing?

Have you checked for actual sparks?
 
#8 ·
I bought the engine ( a new one), ecu, fuel pump etc all from an Alfa specialist in Detroit I have know and worked with for years . The ecu and harness came from a running car. The pump is a new Bosch pump, I have not checked fuel pressure but we smell fuel from the exhaust as we crank the engine over . We did remove a plug & coil and checked for spark during cranking and have none . I have run through tests many tests in the Alfa manual and have found no issues wrong . Even tried another ecu, same result .
 
#9 ·
Worth checking fuel pressure.

I was once asked to help start a V6 (a 12V a mate owned). He’d fitted a low pressure pump. It stank of fuel but wouldn’t run. Not surprised given it only had 2psi of fuel pressure.

What has the supplier got to say about it?
 
#12 ·
Fuel pressure good then.

Next has to be absolute basics.

Check for a spark - remove a coil pack and rig it up so the wiring is restored and the plug base is grounded. Crank it and look for a fat healthy spark.

Check for an injector pulse - a NOID if you can get one, or failing that, rig up a bulb or LED across an injector. Crank and look for a pulse.

If it has fuel and sparks, it has to run...unless there is something fundamentally wrong with the mechanical basics - cam timing being most likely, but check compression too.
 
#13 ·
Given it was a North America car, I'd guess the donor had the check engine light and push switch on the column shroud? If so, you could replicate that for easy code reading. I fitted one to my 12V V6 when I had one on the OEM ECU in the Stratos to start with.
 
#16 ·
Well, the engine now starts !!! A friend of a friend had an experienced engine guy I heard of . He stopped by and went through his non start sequence and found what I had thought I checked and missed, a bad relay !! Kind of embarrassing as I’m sure I checked it , but maybe I was looking for bigger problems , a mistake easily made . The other good news is the immobilizer fears I had are unfounded . I have tried two ECU’s now that my coils have power and they both work fine .
Thanks for all your help and ideas , they are appreciated for sure .
 
#17 ·
Good news.

Don't fret over missing stuff. I spent over 2 years off & on looking for a lambda fault on my old 155 V6. Finally found it - it was the very first part I had inspected, tested and declared OK. A fuse. When testing I had mistaken the intermittently buzz of the continuity test as poor contact with the fuse blades. It wasn't, it was the fuse link being broken internally and the two parts moving about as I tested.

Result on the immobiliser too - they can be a pain.
 
#18 ·
Hi Chris,

You seem very knowledgeable re. The ECU and Code boxes on mid '90s 164s with 24v 3.0ltr engine.

I have taken the engine, ECU and Code box from a late '95 164 that was low mileage and I drove about 2000 miles before removing. The engine is now in a HAWK stratos that I am building . If I can get the engine started - I am on the home straight

Is there anyway you might be able to advise/confirm that I am about to wire my yellow CODe box into the ECU correctly to get my V6 3.0ltr engine running...

Vin : ZAR16400006323467

The car is 1995/6

Am I correct that of the 8 pins from the code box these are the important ones;

Pin 3 : fused live
Pin 4 : Ground
Pin 6 : ECU
Pin 8 : ignition live

I have 8 wires exiting the yellow box
 

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#22 ·
Hi Chris,

You seem very knowledgeable re. The ECU and Code boxes on mid '90s 164s with 24v 3.0ltr engine.

I have taken the engine, ECU and Code box from a late '95 164 that was low mileage and I drove about 2000 miles before removing. The engine is now in a HAWK stratos that I am building . If I can get the engine started - I am on the home straight

Is there anyway you might be able to advise/confirm that I am about to wire my yellow CODe box into the ECU correctly to get my V6 3.0ltr engine running...

Vin : ZAR16400006323467

The car is 1995/6

Am I correct that of the 8 pins from the code box these are the important ones;

Pin 3 : fused live
Pin 4 : Ground
Pin 6 : ECU
Pin 8 : ignition live

I have 8 wires exiting the yellow box
Hi James,

Sorry...I am the same person you've been conversing with on the SEC site, alias there is NoCorseChris (I used to own a CAE Corse Strat replica, and had the alias CorseChris, but after selling it, NoCorseChris seemed more apt....)

So, nothing new to add really, other than to confirm that what you have there looks like it should work to the best of what limited info I have on that version/variant of the ECU.

And as Guy says, Craig is usually pretty spot on with this stuff as intends to be issues he has had to resolve himself.

Cheers

NoCorseChris aka ChrisS ;)
 
#20 ·
Hi Guy,

Yes I am - but the information I have got has been contradicted by Craig @ LB regarding the way the code box wires into the ECU.

It would seem that there isn't that much info on the wiring on this year of engine. Earlier ones - no issue and later ones in the GTV - likewise.

What age is your engine? You're installing a 24v aren't you?

James
 
#21 ·
I've got a 166 24v to plug in at some point in the future - Panda to fix/MOT followed by a 159 to fix followed by the Beta restoration at which point I'll be gutting the Stratos again. I'll be using an Emerald system for this, whilst I have a 166 ECU I haven't got the related code boxes and key sensors!

Craig is usually pretty good at this stuff. Is there some confusion creeping in somewhere? Good luck getting it going!
 
#23 ·
Hi Chris

Thanks so much for your reply.

Craig says this is one of the reason why he doesn't use the 24V engine from the 164!

Time to splice into the loom and see what happens then! I suppose if this doesn't work, then I will have to source an aftermarket ECU!!

Kind regards

James
 
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